Page 10 of 54 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 532

Thread: Calorie Counting Revisited : Distillation and Update page 10

  1. #91
    pimpsandwich's Avatar
    pimpsandwich is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1
    Primal Fuel
    Interesting thought about this very common sense thread. Their must be something about the op's writing style, that the respondents have not bashed the calorie counting aspect of it. In so many other post that mention portion control, counting, eat less, etc. their is a major backlash, any thoughts, or am I just off-base.

  2. #92
    belinda's Avatar
    belinda is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    London, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,507
    It's early yet, but I'm trying to up my protein, and have lowered my fat a little (as suggested in the OP), and my scale was down a bit this morning. It's looking promising because I've been at the same weight, for a couple of weeks.
    Newcomers: If you haven't read the book, at least read this thread ... and all the links!
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread17722.html

    F/49/5'4"
    Jan. 1, 2011: 186.6 lbs PBSW Mar. 1, 2011: 175.8 lbs
    CW: 146.8 lbs
    GW 140 lbs
    A proud member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals

  3. #93
    spakesneaker's Avatar
    spakesneaker is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,576
    Quote Originally Posted by pimpsandwich View Post
    Interesting thought about this very common sense thread. Their must be something about the op's writing style, that the respondents have not bashed the calorie counting aspect of it. In so many other post that mention portion control, counting, eat less, etc. their is a major backlash, any thoughts, or am I just off-base.
    It's because Paleobird provides a well thought-out approach to counting calories: (and it's why i have a girlcrush on you paleobird haha)
    There are some people who should NOT be restricting calories.

    1)People who have or have had any kind of eating disorder or OCD tendencies. You need to have a healthy relationship with food and yourself first.
    2)People who don't have all the other parts of the PB plan "dialed in" to their life. Work the fundamentals first. Primalize your pantry, get a good PBF exercise program going, really live by the ten rules Mark lays out.
    3)People who have other health conditions keeping them from losing weight. Get those things healed.
    4)People who have nutritional deficiencies. These need to get sorted out.
    5)People suffering from metabolic disorders. Let your body heal.
    When people get riled up about calorie counting, it's usually because someone has said 'eating less and moving more is the ONLY way to lose weight,' ignoring the holistic picture of health and accusing others on this board of lying about their experiences trying to lose weight while having metabolic problems, and introducing some kind of moralizing ('fatties just need to stop eating so much') aspect into the discussion.

  4. #94
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,627
    Calorie restriction is a very interesting thing. I'm aware calorie restriction promotes weight loss, but what "weight loss" are we promoting? It is my opinion that calorie restriction largely promotes the loss of muscle mass and bone density with low rates of fat loss. I'm proving this to myself as I've lost significant amounts of body fat since going primal while increasing muscle mass. I'm eating considerably more calories now than on a CW lifestyle. I also run less.

    To the OP: your situation is interesting, and I'd love to know what your insulin and leptin levels are. The thing that no one mentions around here is that very low carb diets promote insulin and leptin resistance as well. That's the thing about poisons: small quantities are healthier than none because it actually keeps your body's defenses in check. I'll sit here and argue that 95% wheat restriction is better than 100%. A serving of grains or legumes once every week or two may actually help you, and if you're a celiac, there's always a couple potatoes here or there. Here's the low-down on super low carb:

    I went on a cyclical ketogenic diet probably a year ago. This involved 5.5 days of practically no carbs with 1.5 days of very high carb. The CKD was very successful for 4-6 weeks, but after that, there were drop-offs. It was strongly recommended you'd get off by week 8 at the latest. What would happen was the absence of carbs made people's bodies unable to efficiently process them over time, and they became so insulin resistant from cutting them out, all the fat they'd lose through 5.5 days of keto would be reaccumulated with a 1.5 day carb up.

    A word on leptin: we all know what insulin is. It's the storage hormone that causes us to store all that nasty fat, but what about leptin? That's the hormone that tells fat cells to release fat, so people with low leptin levels, even though they're not storing fat due to low insulin levels, they're not losing any, either. As insulin levels drop, so do leptin levels, so long bouts of low carb eating result in plateaus because leptin levels bottom out.

    That's where carb refeeds come in. The idea is to eat low carb for a few days, then shoot your carbs through the roof to regularly refuel insulin and leptin levels and promote insulin and leptin sensitivities. To the OP: I wonder how you would respond to regular carb refeeds. You may be a person that becomes resistant to leptin easily, so you'll have trouble losing body fat without regular starchy carbs in your diet. You may be losing fat restricting calories, but I'm curious in what ratio. How much muscle and bone density are you sacrificing to lose that body fat? The beauty of the regular carb refeed is it's more about manipulating hormones than messing with calories. I was on a plateau and I broke through it by spending 2 weekends eating sweet potatoes and a little fruit.

    Try this for a simple carb refeed:

    Monday thru Friday, eat primally. Keep your carbs low and fat high like normal.

    Saturday through Sunday, eat 250g of carbs. Get those carbs from yams, white rice or soaked beans. Keep fat low, under 35g. Get your protein from very lean chicken breast and white fish. Eat 1-2 pieces of fruit a day, preferably apples or berries. The idea is to refill your liver glycogen with fructose, but fruit should not make up much of your carbs due to fructose's ability to be easily stored as fat.


    Now, let's say you're very active and you want to carb cycle. I'm quite active, so if I were to carb cycle, I'd do the following for me based on my workouts:

    Monday: Sprints - high fat/low carb primal
    Tuesday: Chest/back - low fat/high carb
    Wednesday: OFF - 24 hour IF
    Thursday: Sprints - high fat/low carb primal
    Friday: Shoulders/arms - low fat/high carb
    Saturday: Low level cardio - high fat/low carb primal
    Sunday: Core - moderate carb/lower fat

    On lifting days, I start every workout with squats and every other workout follow squats with dead lifts.

    Why don't you try something like this out? I bet you're sacrificing more muscle and bone matter than you should be restricting calories. Carb cycling allows you to keep your muscle and bone while lowering body fat levels. This is how the body builders get down to 5% body fat, so I'm sure it'll be more than sufficient for us average Joe's.

    I have a ton of sweet potatoes at home, so I plan on doing a carb refeed either Friday and Saturday or Saturday and Sunday. I haven't decided yet. Either way, on the high carb days, I'll be going for 250g of carbs, mostly from starch with 2 apples mixed in, and 35g of fat or less.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 05-04-2011 at 01:30 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  5. #95
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pimpsandwich View Post
    Interesting thought about this very common sense thread. Their must be something about the op's writing style, that the respondents have not bashed the calorie counting aspect of it. In so many other post that mention portion control, counting, eat less, etc. their is a major backlash, any thoughts, or am I just off-base.
    There was some major vehement bashing on the original thread complete with profanity and screaming caps locks. But, after it is pointed out that Mark, Batty, Drs. Eades, et al are saying the same thing as I am, the objections kind of fizzle. Even the most vociferous troll on the original thread actually came out and apologized and said he was wrong. How fun is that?

  6. #96
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by spakesneaker View Post
    It's because Paleobird provides a well thought-out approach to counting calories: (and it's why i have a girlcrush on you paleobird haha)

    When people get riled up about calorie counting, it's usually because someone has said 'eating less and moving more is the ONLY way to lose weight,' ignoring the holistic picture of health and accusing others on this board of lying about their experiences trying to lose weight while having metabolic problems, and introducing some kind of moralizing ('fatties just need to stop eating so much') aspect into the discussion.
    Awwww........ You made me blush.

    Yes. Calorie counting Weight Watchers style has a very bad rap, justifiably so. It ignores the whole metabolic process. But that is not what I'm doing here. Health concerns have to be addressed first.

    Absolutely right. Fat bashing moralizing is just so many levels of wrong. That was the only troll attack that really hurt, when that one guy accused me of doing just that kind of moralizing painting with a broad brush everyone who advocates "eat less, move more" and including me in the paint job.

  7. #97
    Paleobird's Avatar
    Paleobird Guest
    @ChooTaco369

    While running in ketosis, weight loss is pure fat because fat is the fuel being used.
    No doubt you have lost weight. I did too at first. Then comes the stall.
    Get your facts straight. High carb diets promote leptin and insulin resistance, not low carb diets.
    If you want to do super low carb then insanely high amount of carb cycles, fine, have fun. But I prefer to just maintain a sensibly low (not nonexistent) carb level all the time. It's just more practical. I stay under 50 gr/day to stay in ketosis. (Purple ketostix to prove it).
    I am not sacrificing any muscle mass or strength. In fact, my workouts feel better than ever. I know the weight loss is fat loss because I can see it when I'm in a bikini. What were stubborn pockets of excess padding are melting away.

    Thank you for trying to save me from myself. I really do appreciate the thought. But, I have found something that works here. I'm glad you have found something that works for you.

  8. #98
    Kelda's Avatar
    Kelda is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Northern Scotland
    Posts
    399
    For me the whole idea of that carb cycling and refeeds made my head spin. I can't handle carbs above 100 g even for one day, even when I'm cycling 100 miles! It also seemed very regulated and very unlike what our ancestors may have done. My life is complicated enough without varying the eating so much in this manner.

    If it works for you, great, but it doesn't for me.

    Provided you are eating sufficient protein you won't be losing significant muscle, provided you are weight bearing during some exercise you won't lose significant amounts of bone density. You will however, lose a little of each just because your overall mass is coming down. If you get it right you just lose more fat as a ratio of what is being lost.

    I would be interested to know if ChooTaco369 is male, what works for males doesn't always work for females, in fact, quite the reverse very often due to the additional overlay of cycling hormones. I'm going to post about cortisol and the effect on other hormones when my brain returns - it is currently on vacation after a long day of Slovak language editing!
    Seeking the natural way in a modern world ...

  9. #99
    JKC's Avatar
    JKC
    JKC is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    1,026
    I would find the intentional carb refeeds difficult too, I think, although I occasionally have "eat everything" days. Although I stay primal on these days, I usually have higher carbs than normal then. These often happen before my period. Maybe that is nature's way of doing carb refeeds for us girls.
    Karin

    A joyful heart is good medicine

    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot

    Mmmmm. Real food is good.

    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread29685.html

  10. #100
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,627
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    @ChooTaco369

    While running in ketosis, weight loss is pure fat because fat is the fuel being used.
    No doubt you have lost weight. I did too at first. Then comes the stall.
    Get your facts straight. High carb diets promote leptin and insulin resistance, not low carb diets.
    That's not true. When carbs are routinely restricted from your body, your body becomes less efficient at processing them. Eating 100g of carbs a day with an occasional starch is great for insulin sensitivity. Eating VLC all the time, never incorporating fruits or starches and constantly slipping into ketosis isn't. Your body loses the mechanisms to handle them, just like your immune system suffers in a sterile environment. Carb cycling is far more effective at burning fat than both ketosis and primal. That is a fact, and it's why carb cycling is the #1 choice of body builders. Primal is a far more effective tool for overall health than fat loss, and if you disagree with me, perhaps you need to get your facts straight.

    Carbohydrates are not evil. You just need to learn how to manipulate them. That is the true key to fat loss, because carbs are what drive our hormones the most. Constantly keeping carbs low is running the race against yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    If you want to do super low carb then insanely high amount of carb cycles, fine, have fun. But I prefer to just maintain a sensibly low (not nonexistent) carb level all the time. It's just more practical. I stay under 50 gr/day to stay in ketosis. (Purple ketostix to prove it).
    I am not sacrificing any muscle mass or strength. In fact, my workouts feel better than ever. I know the weight loss is fat loss because I can see it when I'm in a bikini. What were stubborn pockets of excess padding are melting away.

    Thank you for trying to save me from myself. I really do appreciate the thought. But, I have found something that works here. I'm glad you have found something that works for you.
    250g of carbs is not an insanely high amount of carbs. For CW Americans, that is a low day. It's far too high to eat every day for sure, but you will see better results from eating cyclical high carb days than being VLC all the time. Keto plateaus just like primal does. Ketones aren't magic. Carb cycling...it really is.

    There is too much brainwashing around here that carbs are pure evil. Remember the hump we all had to get over when we figured out saturated fat wasn't bad, but actually healthy? It's the same thing with carbs. They aren't evil. You just have to know how to use them.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

Page 10 of 54 FirstFirst ... 8910111220 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •