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Thread: Intermittent Fasting - A Primer ( Part 3 ) page 24

  1. #231
    Inksplat's Avatar
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    Well, I do count the coconut oil. Problem is I'm just estimating, as I don't measure, so I might be doing it a bit low. Like, if on a day I had a 950 calorie steak, plus 150-200 from coconut oil, that puts me at about the 1100-1150 mark. Maybe another couple hundred from my side dish.

    Still feels crazy low. And then there are days like today. About 750, but with no coconut oil. I'll probably take some later along with a protein shake. But still, I'm almost always below 1400-1500.

    As for my lean mass, when I did one of the things, it put me at like 190lbs of lean body mass. Which seems a bit crazy, but whatever.

    Even in a 1lb steak, I'm still only getting like 90ish grams of protein. So that's still weeeell below the .7 grams if that's all I'm eating in a day.

    Edit: And I mean, I'm fine not getting stronger necessarily, so long as I can keep my current muscle while losing mostly fat. I can always work on muscle later.
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  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inksplat View Post
    Edit: And I mean, I'm fine not getting stronger necessarily, so long as I can keep my current muscle while losing mostly fat. I can always work on muscle later.
    No doubt. I'd be very concerned with retaining lean mass while you lose. Seems like you already know that protein and high intensity strength training are the best ways to retain lean while you lose the fat. Personally I was doing 2 meals a day about 6 hours apart for over a year. I just switched to 1 meal a day this last week. I wouldn't stress about it. Maybe you need 2 meals a day yet. You could read part two about slowly switching over rather than diving right in. I like it, but I do have a fairly easy time getting in all that food.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-21-2012 at 04:48 PM.

  3. #233
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    And to add to it, I just went downstairs and my wife was eating a piece of pizza. And, immediately I thought "Oh yeah, I could polish off a few pieces of that no problem." And I could have. Didn't repulse me at all.

    But then I made a shot of coconut oil and nearly gagged on it.

    Its so weird. My body is like "Yeah, sorry, all the seats for fat and protein have been taken. Come back later."

    But grains? Aaaaalllaboard!

    >.<
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  4. #234
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    I'm pretty low carb, but I have been eating one potato with my single meal. I use like a half stick of butter on it.....maybe that would help, unless you are relentless about staying in ketosis. Then that would not be an option.

  5. #235
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    Nope, Ketosis isn't a big deal. I love sweet potatoes, but haven't been making them a staple, simply because I'm paranoid about cravings coming back, I guess.

    But that definitely might help get some extra calories in, since my body seems to react totally different to the thought of eating carbs or sweet things than meat and vegetables. Like right now, I could totally down some candy or a sweet potato or a cake. Doesn't sound bad at all. But more meat and I'd just stare at it, I think, unless it was like lunch meat or something.

    Hm. Maybe I could try cottage cheese too. That still sounds appetizing.

    Man, this is weird. I've never felt myself turn off to an entire food group, but still be hungry for others.
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  6. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    BTW I think this is a spam bot repeater....correct me if I'm wrong.
    Might have been but I enjoyed reading the reply The Bulletproof dude talks about BCAAs when doing his extreme weight loss plan, I forget what he calls it, so sometimes I take some when I "think" I will do a longer fast, but I usually end up breaking it at 24, or one time 36 instead of a couple of days or more.

    Pklopp, I dont think I have asked you before, but one other blog dude talked about eating fermented foods like sauerkraut while fasting (cant remember who offhand) and he got his information from the Perfect Diet. What is your take on that? Maybe I should read back, I might have already asked you that.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  7. #237
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    Figure I'd mention that if your protein source (steak) is too lean that will definitely put a finite limit on how much of it you can eat. The leaner it is the less I can eat. We had some 75/25 ground beef....that is actually like 75% fat by calorie! I can eat a ton more of that than I can some lean round steak. If you wanna eat lean steak put a pat or two of butter on it....guaranteed to help you eat more . This goes to some research showing that in even a lean male our make up is approximately 75% fat and 25% protein by calorie. Eating in that ratio seems reasonable to me based on our makeup. Then the tator thing if it suits you. Good luck! I'm sure Pklopp will pop in at some time with some info.

  8. #238
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    Thanks a bunch for help, I really appreciate it!

    I feel fine, so I know I've got nothing to worry about in the short term, but its still something I'd like to correct if I can.
    SW: 324.6 ----- CW: 310
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  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inksplat View Post
    I rise and fall a bit. Some days I do manage to eat more, but I don't think I hit 2k very often. I used ghee to cook in, but I never really factor those calories in. I also take about 150-400 calories worth of coconut oil a day, but I do try and factor that in.
    You cook with a highly saturated source of fat ( ghee ) yet you do not factor that into your caloric intake?

    Try weighing your ghee and see how much of it you use. I would expect you to be using in the vicinity of 40 - 50 grams of it, which adds about 400 kCal to your daily intake.


    Quote Originally Posted by Inksplat View Post
    I eat mostly meat, so its not like I'm stuffing myself with leafy greens or anything. I just fill up on a meal of 800-1100 calories, and then don't really get hungry again. This hasn't been going on for too long, but its still something I wonder about.

    I mean, with 315 pounds on me, I've got plenty of fat to burn. But I even worked out between these two meals today, and still I'm not hungry. If it wasn't for worry of getting enough protein, I'd probably be thrilled to be able to only eat 1000 calories and be full. That's like a dieter's dream. But I also don't want to lose a whole heap of of muscle.

    I feel like my only alternative is to force myself to down a protein shake, but all the powders I find have soy and taurine and junk, so that doesn't seem like the best option.


    In terms of your appetite for pizza, you are actually describing the difference between satiety and satiation among other things. I would attempt to break it down for you, but J. Stanton over at gnolls already posted a multi part article on this, and rather than try to summarize / plagiarize him, you should just head over there and check it out. Here's an interesting snippet:


    Quote Originally Posted by J. Stanton
    A Summary Of The Components Of Hunger

    • Likes (scientific usage) = the pleasures we experience from eating, known scientifically as “hedonic impact”.
    • Wants = desires at a specific moment. A measure of our motivation to attain a reward. Our “appetite”.
    • Satiation = absence of motivation to eat more. The absence of attainable wants. An estimate of future satiety, based on the sensory experience of eating.
    • Satiety = a signal from your body that it is replete with nutrients.

    Note that satiation can be manipulated by the mere manner in which you eat, so, if you break your food down into smaller pieces and spend more time chewing the food, satiation occurs at a lower caloric intake. Satiety is driven by metabolic processes that kick off during the absorptive phase of digestion and these are pretty much determined by the nutrient content of the chyme that enters your small intestine from the stomach. You can't game satiety.

    On a personal note, the one thing that kept me from achieving my transformation was my neurotic fear of losing muscle mass. You can see where "preserving my muscle mass" got me:


    When I finally let go of that, I dropped 45 lbs. of what I assumed to be mostly fat. I don't know that I didn't lose some muscle mass, but I do know that of the muscle that I retained, it sure as hell is a lot more visible now that it isn't muffled by all that fat.

    Lastly, keep in mind that as you lose weight / mass, your support systems will down regulate. Your organs will lose mass, as will some of your muscles. The mass of a calf muscle needed to move about 315 lbs. is significantly larger than one for 240 lbs. This will provide an endogenous source of protein that does not require you to forcibly down godawful protein shakes.

    I would say that if you are not hungry, don't eat, and don't worry about the muscle mass. That is a premature optimization. Drop the excess fat, then re-evaluate.

    -PK
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  10. #240
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    Thanks PK!

    I was reading this guy's success story, Jay Wright, the other day and what jumped out at me was his IF protocol which is exactly as you suggest, one meal daily with weekly 48 hour fasts. For him at least, calories mattered as he restricted those as well... He had impressive results.

    Intermittent fasting with one meal a day worked best for my schedule; I coconut oil fasted earlier in the day and 1 day per week. After the first month, I coconut oil fasted for an entire week since I figured I should clean out my system. Then I dropped the calories to only 1200 to get some faster results early on to help my back. I thought I would readjust the calories up or the eating schedule according to my hunger, but I did not experience any hunger and had great energy so I left the plan alone. What little hunger I did experience was very mild and just meant it was time to drink another bottle of water or swig a tablespoon of coconut oil before the evening dinner.
    Later!
    Last edited by PrimalFocus; 07-25-2012 at 04:22 PM.

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