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Thread: Intermittent Fasting - A Primer ( Part 3 ) page 21

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalFocus View Post
    Fascinating, the last two posts are almost opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of experience as it relates to weight loss and fasting.
    Not all fasting is created equal. If you are following the eating window protocol, think ( 16/8 ) you are basically cycling glycogen. It takes you about 24 - 28 hours to go through the body's glycogen store and then you transition into full bore lipolysis for the duration of your fat store. There is some proteolytic gluconeogenesis going on in there as you make the transition, but it is unclear from what substrate that is ( it seems to be BCAAs that are part of the cellular cytosol )

    All of this is to say that if you follow a lean gains protocol with a 16 hour fast / 8 hour eating window, or an alternating day fast protocol, or a consecutive 48 hour fast, you are doing very different things metabolically. Note that an ADF approach has you fasting 3 days a week, effectively. It should go without saying that a 3 day fast followed by 4 days of eating is a dramatically different thing from ADF.

    It also needs to be said that caloric intake is still relevant, whether fasting or not. If you tell me that you are fasting yet not losing much weight ... then the answer must be in what and how much you are eating.

    -PK
    Last edited by pklopp; 07-17-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inksplat View Post
    I'm currently doing a 19/5 (Fast5, as the cool kids call it), but the only reason I don't eat just a single meal is that I'm not sure I could eat enough food in one meal. But I'll probably give it a go at some point, since having to eat within a window is almost as much of a pain as having to eat 3 meals a day sometimes.
    Food intake and gastric emptying are all closely related. For example, food gets absorbed in the small intestine. When chyme from the stomach containing fats and proteins enters the upper part of the small intestine, cells lining the intestine secrete cholecystokinin (CCK) which, among other things like stimulating the secretion of bile and pancreatic digestive enzymes, is a potent gastric emptying inhibitor.

    We have long had the cultural notion of "heavy meals." These tend to be "rich" or, in other words, laden with protein and fats. As we know, this would stimulate production of cholecystokinin which in turn inhibits gastric emptying to allow you to absorb these nutrient dense meals! Evolutionarily speaking, it makes no sense whatsoever to go to all of the trouble of tracking prey and eating it if you cannot absorb the meal!

    CCK is also an appetite suppressant, since it makes little sense for you to gorge yourself if you have not yet digested your previous meal!

    In contrast, there is a panoply of magazines exhorting the benefits of "eating light", which generally translates into shifting the meal makeup from proteins and fats to more vegetables and other indigestible carbohydrates like fiber. It turns out that carbohydrates are not particularly good at eliciting a cholecystokinin response, which means that gastric emptying is quite rapid after a carb heavy meal, making these meals the darlings of the "light" crowd. This also goes a long way towards explaining the cliche about Chinese food.

    I expect that you can definitely eat enough food in one meal, but stick to nutrient dense foods ... proteins and fats ... your cholecystokinin and gastric emptying rates will thank you.

    -PK
    Last edited by pklopp; 07-17-2012 at 12:47 PM.
    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

  3. #203
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  4. #204
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    So, I did a little experimenting, and yesterday was a single meal day (so, roughly 24-hour fast before hand). My meal yesterday was a 1lb sirloin steak, and I managed to eat a bit of cream spinach. I was absolutely stuffed for the next 4 hours.

    But that all only comes out to maaaybe 1100 calories. About 55-60% fat, the rest protein. That seems like a pretty low number, all in all, for an entire day. I definitely feel a little more carb-flu-y today than I have the past couple days. But going to continue the experiment at least through til tomorrow.

    I just can't imagine eating more than that one pound steak. But I suppose part of that is due to the Fast5 routine and my stomach not being used to that much food. Because I definitely used to be able to polish off more than a pound of food on a trip to Cheesecake Factory.
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  5. #205
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    I usually do 2 meals a day (lunch and dinner), but felt like hitting some new stuff so went 24 hours (dinner to dinner). No problem, I even did my heavy lift this afternoon before chow time. Broke it with about 1.5 lbs of beef/pork and over a pound of veggies from my garden all in a stir fry followed up with a couple pieces of dark chocolate. I'm just messing around since not trying to lose any weight or anything.

    Glad people are working with this though. I've had some interesting past experiences with fasting from my wrestling days. Back then I vowed to never go hungry again! But, different story with these short fasts at a healthy weight.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I usually do 2 meals a day (lunch and dinner), but felt like hitting some new stuff so went 24 hours (dinner to dinner). No problem, I even did my heavy lift this afternoon before chow time. Broke it with about 1.5 lbs of beef/pork and over a pound of veggies from my garden all in a stir fry followed up with a couple pieces of dark chocolate. I'm just messing around since not trying to lose any weight or anything.

    Glad people are working with this though. I've had some interesting past experiences with fasting from my wrestling days. Back then I vowed to never go hungry again! But, different story with these short fasts at a healthy weight.
    Do you usually eat huge meals? I'm have trouble getting down a pound and a small bit of change.

    I mean, today isn't as uncomfortable as it was yesterday, but I still can't imagine downing 2 1/2 pounds of food in one sitting.
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inksplat View Post
    Do you usually eat huge meals? I'm have trouble getting down a pound and a small bit of change.

    I mean, today isn't as uncomfortable as it was yesterday, but I still can't imagine downing 2 1/2 pounds of food in one sitting.
    Well, it did take me about an hour and a half to actually eat. I also did a heavy workout just prior to it. I'm not uncomfortable right now, but I'm not looking to go for a jog either if you know what I mean . I can definitely put down some food though when I want to, so I guess I may be well adapted to large meals. Did you try doing just 2 meals a day before moving down to just one? Maybe my slightly larger meals twice a day for a long time had me prepared.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljioejlad View Post
    I'm very into IF, but I do have my doubts as to whether a sub-1000 calorie daily intake is either beneficial or sustainable. I'm sure it would be good for a short-term fat loss fix, but surely not long-term.
    Yeah, I was adding up my calories (you got me thinking) and I came to about 2200 in my meal with a macro breakdown of 63f/25p/12c. I hit over the micro RDA's on everything but magnesium, manganese, and calcium. If I was getting sub 1000 I would not do that on a daily basis. Maybe back off to a 16/8 protocol. It's much easier to get it all in. Then maybe just add in one day a week were you do the 24 hour thing.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    If I was getting sub 1000 I would not do that on a daily basis.
    I def. made up today for my 600+ calorie day yesterday. And I figured as much. It wasnt too awfully crazy, but I figure it will average itself out somewhat.
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  10. #210
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    I did my second 22 hour fast in a row (two hours to eat) today. It was actually even easier than the first day. I did drink two cups of coffee with a little coconut milk throughout the day (less than 45 calories I'm sure). Felt good...no bonking, just got hungry at the right time. I think I'll stick with this for a couple weeks and check in on this thread to report.

    Today I broke fast with 14oz steak, one whole onion sauteed over and smothering the steak, mash potatoes (1.5 cups), lacto-fermented veggies (1 cup of carrots, turnip, garlic, and ginger mix), tall glass of raw milk, and about a cup....probably less of grapes. Used about 4-5 tablespoons of butter throughout the cooking.

    This came to 2,323 calories with a macro breakdown of 52%fat/24%protein/23%carb. Still under 150g of carbs, but this was a pretty big carb load for me. I rarely eat fruit or tators let alone both in the same day.

    Figure I'd throw a few days of what I eat in for those that seem to have trouble eating enough. If you do...one word....butter. About 400 of my calories are from butter and all the food was sooooo excellent.

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