Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Lipitor Commerical page

  1. #1
    Bill_89's Avatar
    Bill_89 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    91

    Lipitor Commerical

    Primal Fuel
    Saw a lipitor commercial today. It claimed that 80% of people who have heart attacks have high cholesterol. Anyone know what research they're referring to here?

    Volume was off (we were listening to music) so I didn't hear the audio, but I thought it was interesting. It almost seems like the they're feeling threatened by the number of people who are starting to question the lipid hypothesis and the effectiveness of statins. True or not, they're clearly trying to scare people. For example, in another of their commercials, the actor says he was "kidding himself" about his cholesterol.

    It's hard to trust companies who care about nothing but they're bottom line.
    Last edited by Bill_89; 04-24-2011 at 07:52 PM.

  2. #2
    lizch's Avatar
    lizch is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Redmond WA
    Posts
    1,542
    It could be that 80% of ALL people have "high" cholesterol...what I'd need to see is the percentage of people who don't have a heart attack who have the same cholesterol levels.
    Liz.

    Zone diet on and off for several years....worked, but too much focus on exact meal composition
    Primal since July 2010...skinniest I've ever been and the least stressed about food

  3. #3
    Bill_89's Avatar
    Bill_89 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    91
    I just find it odd how some people can claim there is no relationship while others insist the relationship is strong. Of course, it's not I'd expect anything different from a company that sells cholesterol lowering medicine.

  4. #4
    runnergal's Avatar
    runnergal is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    921
    Quote Originally Posted by lizch View Post
    It could be that 80% of ALL people have "high" cholesterol...what I'd need to see is the percentage of people who don't have a heart attack who have the same cholesterol levels.
    Oh but they are just a heart attack waiting to happen. They are going to die....someday...and then we can blame cholesterol.
    MTA: because it is rare I dont have more to say

    "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - my daughter Age 7

  5. #5
    Bill_89's Avatar
    Bill_89 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    91
    Heh. Just saw the commercial again.

    They use the phrase "don't kid yourself" at least three times. It is definitely a psychologically convincing argument.

  6. #6
    AndreaReina's Avatar
    AndreaReina is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    851
    Cholesterol is a part of the body's healing response, therefore it makes sense that, given what it needs to manufacture it, the body will produce cholesterol in the presence of arterial inflammation. The Jaminets (Perfect Health Diet) just did a multi-part feature on cholesterol (well, HDL ) that explains some of it. You wouldn't expect people to believe that firetrucks cause fires because they're around burning buildings, but that's what the lipid hypothesis says. Like lizch says, it's important to look at those who don't have CVD as well. Actually, here's part of the answer, courtesy of Richard Nikoley, a chart of total cholesterol vs heart disease mortality of 86 countries; there's a nice cluster of countries in the 200-220 TC range (CW says keep below 200) that correlates to lower mortality.

  7. #7
    J. Stanton's Avatar
    J. Stanton is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    192
    If you define "high cholesterol" as "the threshold of total cholesterol over which 80% of heart attack victims are tested," then yes, that's a true statement. It's like saying "Did you know that 50% of Americans are BELOW AVERAGE???!?!?!?!!?"

    "It almost seems like the they're feeling threatened by the number of people who are starting to question the lipid hypothesis and the effectiveness of statins. "

    Absolutely, because statins do minimal good for a very small group of people (men under ~60 who've already had a coronary event), vitamin D is many times more effective for everyone with none of the side effects, and the lipid hypothesis is bunk anyway.

  8. #8
    Bill_89's Avatar
    Bill_89 is offline Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    91
    I'd also be interested in knowing what they consider "high." If they set the bar super low, then that would include almost everyone.

    So I've heard of cholesterol being a healing mechanism. So does that mean that high cholesterol is a marker for inflammation? if so, that might mean that there is an association between cholesteral and heart disease, but that not that cholesterol causes heart disease. If this were the case, a statin would actually make things worse . . . but then the plaques themselves are made of cholesterol. Bleh.

    J. Stanton: I love your site. Great work on your articles!
    Last edited by Bill_89; 04-24-2011 at 08:20 PM.

  9. #9
    AndreaReina's Avatar
    AndreaReina is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    851
    The plaques aren't only made out of cholesterol, but smooth muscles cells, macrophages (a type of white blood cell I believe), calcium.... it's a real mess. In some cases, yes high cholesterol is a marker of inflammation; for example the Paul Jaminet explains that one way to increase your HDL is to swallow a whole lot of pathogens: that's bad. Then again, another way of increasing your HDL is through ketosis; in this case we're increasing a healing response without adding to the body's burden, so the end result is positive.

    Because cholesterol has purposes other than the healing response, and because cholesterol synthesis can be upregulated without adding to the body's inflammatory or infectious burden, a "high" cholesterol reading by itself is absolutely meaningless.

    Statins have an anti-inflammatory side-effect, which is likely the true driver of the results seen in that small portion that J. Stanton mentioned. The other side-effects (the ones they don't tell you about) aren't so great to live with.

  10. #10
    Stabby's Avatar
    Stabby is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Stabsville
    Posts
    2,462
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Stanton View Post
    If you define "high cholesterol" as "the threshold of total cholesterol over which 80% of heart attack victims are tested," then yes, that's a true statement. It's like saying "Did you know that 50% of Americans are BELOW AVERAGE???!?!?!?!!?"

    "It almost seems like the they're feeling threatened by the number of people who are starting to question the lipid hypothesis and the effectiveness of statins. "

    Absolutely, because statins do minimal good for a very small group of people (men under ~60 who've already had a coronary event), vitamin D is many times more effective for everyone with none of the side effects, and the lipid hypothesis is bunk anyway.
    Right-o.

    My new argument for those who haven't looked into the issue much yet is that mother nature ain't stupid. She doesn't produce cholesterol unless she needs it and what causes the need for cholesterol? Damage to the body, particularly the arteries. If you eat saturated fat and make cholesterol it's because you need it. Combine an inflammatory and damaging diet that will cause heart disease by itself with a sufficient fat diet and you get a heart attack with high cholesterol levels, but it doesn't follow that the cholesterol levels caused it. I think that the cholesterol helps as best it can. There was that hyperlipid post that showed that the best survival of MIs was in those with the highest LDL cholesterol. No kidding!
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •