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Thread: same old same old but....... page

  1. #1
    denise's Avatar
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    same old same old but.......

    Primal Fuel
    I'd appreciate insights.

    I average about 120g of carbs a day. I know a lot of that comes from the sweet potato I have been having with lunch after running/training in the mornings. NOW, I re-looked at the PB book and that, despite my calorie deficit of 1000+ cals a day (from working out/walking etc), means I am only in "effortless weight maintenance" range. Which is a pisser. I want weight loss, in fact to be precise, I want FAT loss - and let me tell you, less than 100 grams of carbs a day is NOT going to be bloody effortless and less than 100g and I get a bit wobbly (and eating more fat/protein doesn't stop it!!) (BTW, FWIW, 120g a day is hardly what I would call "effortless" either, it reduces my veggies and all but berries for fruit - let alone talking about the effort of resiting easter cakes, easter eggs, baked goods after a long hike. NOPE, not remotely effortless. )

    Much against my instincts, but for "purposes of research", I have been tracking my food intake on Fitday for a few weeks now. (I realise it has its limitations but kept reading people recommend looking at intake if "stalled"). My average calories are 2093 per day. Fat 116.7g per day 50%, protein 144.7g per day, 22% and carbs 115.9g per day and 22%, almost all these carbs are from sweet potato, veggies etc NO "non primal" foods have passed my lips unless the 10fl oz of milk counts? No nuts etc (apart from on hiking day when I HAD to snack as I literally felt faint and dried fruit and nuts was what i had with me - so I have about 25g of nuts and 50g of fruit - not exactly a lot). My calorie "expenditure" (according to the fancy HR monitor I wear) from exercise averages 1200 per day, lots of steady state, some sprinting, some heavy weights and lots of stretching.

    I'm not entirely sure how I would KNOW if I am losing weight anyway, as I am not getting on the scales any more - haven't for MONTHS. BUT my clothes are not "falling off" - in fact, they seem pretty much the same (some are still too tight!)? I look "healthy" I guess, my husband approves (never liked me too slim, he likes boobs) - but a bit chubby for my liking and I lack muscle definition despite pushing some good weights for me. I'd guess I have 10 - 15lbs to lose, so I'm not huge but not slim really either - things SHOULD be working IMO and don't seem to be. Cue the "perhaps you weigh what you should" comments?? Though surely with this effort even if its not what my body really "prefers" i should be slimming down and leaning out?? (It has in the past on CW, complete with muscle definition).

    I guess I don't understand. Maybe this is a healthy way to eat (I am healthy i think, though god knows what my doctor would make of my diet and I have had not tests for cholesterol etc) but not a way to lose weight?? Not for me??

    Don't know what I expect but any earth shattering revelations - or even a bit of practical advice would be welcome. I'm not "down" about this really, just puzzled.

  2. #2
    rayout's Avatar
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    Are you feeling hungry? For the most part if you are keeping your carbohydrates down and not consuming sugar you should feed your body until it is satiated. Sounds like you are still ingesting some sweets/fruits. Fructose is metabolized right into fat. Also your body doesn't recognize it as an energy source so you stay hungry - very insidious stuff. Cut it out of your diet!

    Otherwise you are going to stimulate a starvation response and your body will want to retain fat. Eat until you are full. Cut carbohydrates to 50g or less. Try intermittent fasting - and keep up the good work

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    First, I wanted to say that the carbohydrate curve is not the be-all and end-all of weight loss. It's a general guide, with certain limitations. Some people who are active will need more. Some people who are severely insulin resistant will need less. Many, if not most people can lose weight on well over 100 carbs a day - assuming calories are kept in check and nutrition is good.

    Anyway, there are a couple things in your story that caught my eye. First, keeping carbs down is only effortless once your body is adapted. I'd guess that you may have never fully adapted to a lower carb intake (it can take weeks), or that you're activity level is just too high to be sustained on lower carbs.

    Which brings me to the question about your activity level. What exactly are you doing? Why so much steady state? Steady state cardio will drive up carb requirements, and actually isn't always helpful for weight loss, especially when you look at cortisol production.

    Finally, I'd look at your intake levels again. It's possible that you are eating too much or too little. Even the fancy heart rate monitors have a huge range of error in terms of calculating energy expenditures.
    The Primal Holla! Eating fat. Getting lean. Being awesome.

    You were sick, but now you're well, and there's work to do. - Kilgore Trout

  4. #4
    denise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayout View Post
    Are you feeling hungry? For the most part if you are keeping your carbohydrates down and not consuming sugar you should feed your body until it is satiated. Sounds like you are still ingesting some sweets/fruits. Fructose is metabolized right into fat. Also your body doesn't recognize it as an energy source so you stay hungry - very insidious stuff. Cut it out of your diet!

    Otherwise you are going to stimulate a starvation response and your body will want to retain fat. Eat until you are full. Cut carbohydrates to 50g or less. Try intermittent fasting - and keep up the good work
    definitely get hungry!! Tend to eat lunch as first meal of day between 12.30 and 1.30 - then dinner at 6.30/7 and thats that, so kinda IFing?. Believe me - I am HUNGRY for those meals! I do then eat quite a lot - about 1000 cals at each meal. NO sweets, and fruit is just a few berries a day (about 5 strawberries and a handful of blueberries. I could cut them - but i worry about turning my food into an endurance thing with little pleasure left in it.)

    BUT I do plan to plod on!!

  5. #5
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    Is the 1,000 plus deficit you walkabout per day from Fitday (calculating your BMR, adding exercise, subtracting calories eaten)? If it is only from exercise, that seems like A LOT of calories burned from exercise. Are you overtraining to burn that many calories in a day?

    Carrie

  6. #6
    denise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theholla View Post
    First, I wanted to say that the carbohydrate curve is not the be-all and end-all of weight loss. It's a general guide, with certain limitations. Some people who are active will need more. Some people who are severely insulin resistant will need less. Many, if not most people can lose weight on well over 100 carbs a day - assuming calories are kept in check and nutrition is good.

    Anyway, there are a couple things in your story that caught my eye. First, keeping carbs down is only effortless once your body is adapted. I'd guess that you may have never fully adapted to a lower carb intake (it can take weeks), or that you're activity level is just too high to be sustained on lower carbs.

    Which brings me to the question about your activity level. What exactly are you doing? Why so much steady state? Steady state cardio will drive up carb requirements, and actually isn't always helpful for weight loss, especially when you look at cortisol production.

    Finally, I'd look at your intake levels again. It's possible that you are eating too much or too little. Even the fancy heart rate monitors have a huge range of error in terms of calculating energy expenditures.
    I had hoped that 5+ months of less than 140g of carbs a day would mean I was adapted?? I think my activity level is too high - BUT I hike cos I love it, I run for the same reason ... gave it up when I first went primal and missed it (oh, and I got bigger!!), so I reintroduced it a few weeks ago and am loving it! I also walk a lot when I can - yesterday husband and I went for a 3 hour walk - again just cos we loved it. My running tends to be at 90% effort average - cos I do get some sprints in there.

    I have done fitday to try gauge food - I am not eating more than I am hungry for - and 2000 cals doesn't seem excessive - and even if my HR moitor was out by 50%, 600 cals of expenditure a day should be leading to weight loss??

    oh, I dunno. Certainly I don't see the benfit in eating this way but constantly cutting things and stopping activities.

    Meanwhile I plod happily on really. I am trying not to stress about it - that would be BAD!!

    Thanks for the help though - it just doesn't move things along for me - eat less than 2000 cals a day, eat no fruit, eat less veggies - ugh! I think I'd prefer CW (though I actually don't WANT low fat foods or wheat products any more). Hmmmm

  7. #7
    denise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carres1973 View Post
    Is the 1,000 plus deficit you walkabout per day from Fitday (calculating your BMR, adding exercise, subtracting calories eaten)? If it is only from exercise, that seems like A LOT of calories burned from exercise. Are you overtraining to burn that many calories in a day?

    Carrie
    yep thats it. I am active - I do exercise - but its only an hour or so of what I would call "exercise", the rest is for pleasure of moving. I feel good - not "overtrained" (which I have experienced in the past). I did cut my exercise right back for a few months, stuck to PB guidelines - but my clothes were just getting tighter and tighter, even with same carbs and all..... and I missed it!! Nice weather and I want to be out moving, running, walking, hiking etc.

    I am an anomaly it seems.

  8. #8
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    It is possible to feel "good" and still not be getting enough rest.
    You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Caveman View Post
    It is possible to feel "good" and still not be getting enough rest.
    true. I do get 10 hours sleep a night but maybe I am going to have to rest more. I have spent all day today chilling (after a run this morning which I enjoyed a lot). Slothlike!!

  10. #10
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    5+ months of 140 grams of carbs will make you adapted to functioning on 140 grams of carbs. It won't necessarily make you adapted to functioning on, say, 70 grams of carbs. Personally, I gone through mild "carb flu" whenever I've cut my carbs - whether it was going from moderate carb to low carb, or from low carb to very low carb.

    I also love running, but I'm definitely not putting in the mileage that I used to. I find that training smarter and getting my nutrition dialed in are letting me make better progress with less effort. How long are your runs? What's your pace like? I personally like the "train low/race high" approach to carbs and running, but the adaptation process can get ugly at times - I still feel the "bonk" on my longer runs, but it's milder, and eventually I was able to run past it. I still recover better if I get in some post-run carbs, but don't seem to need more than 30 grams or so.

    Just in terms of diet though, do you really find you have to limit your veggies? I'm eating more vegetables than ever. You can pretty much stuff yourself on the green stuff and still keep your carbs low. In a typical day I might eat .5 lbs broccoli (16 grams of carbs), 4 cups spinach (4 grams), 1/4 onion (2 grams), 1 cup cherry tomatoes (6 grams), 1/2 an avocado (9 grams), a big carrot (7 grams) and .25 lbs asparagus (5 grams) all while staying below 50 grams of carbohydrates. That still leaves room for a cup of blueberries (21 grams), half a cup of sweet potato (20 grams), and an ounce of cashews (9 grams) while staying around 100 for the day.
    The Primal Holla! Eating fat. Getting lean. Being awesome.

    You were sick, but now you're well, and there's work to do. - Kilgore Trout

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