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Thread: Intermittent Fasting - A Primer ( Part 2 ) page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciavyn View Post
    Curious -- is this how you eat all the time, or do you limit this eating pattern to a certain time frame -- a week, two weeks, two days, etc.?

    Given that I can barely go two hours on carbohydrates without eating, I am able to get 4-5 hours between meals when I eat high-protein meals. Getting down to one meal would be amazing, but again, I question is this on a regular basis, or just “intermittently” implemented?
    This is how I eat daily, with the notable exception of 40 hours fasts thrown in periodically.

    Brillat-Savarin said "A man does not live on what he eats, an old proverb says, but on what he digests." Savarin was undoubtedly a genius and hit the nail squarely on the head with that. A meal, depending upon its makeup, takes from 4 - 5 hours to traverse the alimentary tract, and therefore digest. The implication of this is that if you subscribe to the "three square meals a day" approach, then you are literally spending all of your waking hours digesting. Breakfast at 7:00 AM, five hours later, lucky you, you get to have lunch, for another episode of a 5 hour digestion session terminating at 5:00 PM, when , gee, let's have dinner and initiate another round of digestion that will wrap up roughly at 10:00 PM when it is more or less time to go to sleep so that we can rinse and repeat tomorrow.

    This to me seems absolutely antithetical to all that we know about how people work. We don't do anything constantly. We alternate between periods of activity and inactivity. Look at our circadian rhythms, pulsatile secretion of hormones, 90 minute sleep micro-cycles during the night, and so on. This intuitively suggests to me that eating ought to exhibit the same kind of underlying pattern, so eat, not-eat. The Ramadan fasting studies seem to support this intuition.

    This is all to say that intermittent fasting as I've described it seems to me to be the most natural eating pattern. And, as an aside, I really dislike the term intermittent fasting because it frames the discourse within a connotative box that includes such notions as starving, discomfort, and unnatural behaviour. There is a lot of cultural baggage there that must be dispensed with. I am working on better terminology, and as I am fond of playing with language, I have my own neologism that I think better expresses my philosophy. However, the problem is that it is my terminology and not widely used, therefore, as the point of this primer was to dispel misinformation, I was forced to address and rely upon the prevailing terminology.

    I have a few things to say about your last couple of sentences, but, as I am verbose, these posts take a bit of time for me to write, so I will come back to you in a bit with more.

    -PK

  2. #12
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    PK -- thank you very much. I find this fascinating. I've studied diet for many years given my own odd propensity to not eating and being perfectly fine with it under times of great stress. Any further information is much appreciated.

  3. #13
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    Yes, thanks for putting this up. I’m very interested in the 40 hour (reasons, etc.) also. As you may have seen, IF is constantly under attack on some of these threads. The summary is that it “ruins your metabolism” (rT3). Drives me crazy because I’ve seen so many benefits from it and no downside, except the obvious adjustment of denying myself food. It is a fantastic discipline with great results. I also don’t get how anyone could seriously believe that our ancestors did not basically IF. Before agriculture and refrigeration, how in the world could people maintain the steady supply of food that so many here believe is necessary to keep from “ruining” your metabolism? Here’s the answer, they didn’t. They hunted, gathered, and then ate. Repeat. Try this, take a bow and a knife and go into the wilderness. Let me know on how it goes on eating 3000 calories a day consisting of 3 meals a day plus snacks.

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    So I've been pondering this discussion all night, as the idea of not eating all the time naturally appeals to me as I'm a full-time student and employee, and have very little time as it is. My evening meal is by far my favorite and the only one I really have time to enjoy. So this pattern of only eating once or twice a day garners my curiosity. However, just to give an example: this morning I made my usual bacon and eggs, and had coffee with real cream -- the heavy whipping kind. Yum. However, I was stuffed with my three eggs and bacon. I could not eat anything more. So how would you eat so much at one sitting to make up your calories for the day, when even if I ate enough for a meal and a half, I'd be sick from eating so much food? Does the body just get used to it? Is it a growing into period where the stomach just stretches to accommodate? I've learned over the years NOT to stuff myself, as is the habit with my six-doughnuts-per-sitting family members (I'm the only thin one in my family). Now I wonder, how do you do it otherwise?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciavyn View Post
    So I've been pondering this discussion all night, as the idea of not eating all the time naturally appeals to me as I'm a full-time student and employee, and have very little time as it is. My evening meal is by far my favorite and the only one I really have time to enjoy. So this pattern of only eating once or twice a day garners my curiosity. However, just to give an example: this morning I made my usual bacon and eggs, and had coffee with real cream -- the heavy whipping kind. Yum. However, I was stuffed with my three eggs and bacon. I could not eat anything more. So how would you eat so much at one sitting to make up your calories for the day, when even if I ate enough for a meal and a half, I'd be sick from eating so much food? Does the body just get used to it? Is it a growing into period where the stomach just stretches to accommodate? I've learned over the years NOT to stuff myself, as is the habit with my six-doughnuts-per-sitting family members (I'm the only thin one in my family). Now I wonder, how do you do it otherwise?
    When I tried what some know as The Warrior Diet (eating once a day typically at night) I wasn't able to make it a whole week and I think the problem was not getting enough food in on that one meal, and feeling uncomfortable if I tried. I mean, there certainly could be an adjustment period, but I didn't like the feeling of being stuffed for two+ hours. The worst actually was the next day. I was having my meals around 6pm when I got home from work, and wouldn't eat again until that same hour the next day but getting to that time I would feel weak and light-headed. I decided then that it wasn't a good fit for me at the time and went back to my usual two meals a day where I feel most comfortable and when I can eat decent sized meals without worrying if it's going to be enough or not. I usually eat between 1 and 8pm (typically I'll eat at 1 or 2pm then again at 7) and with that I do have enough energy and never feel like the lights are going out.

    I think you could do 2 meals a day then either do a one meal day or skip a whole day once a week (or every two weeks, or once a month, etc) and see how that works out for you. I'm tempted to try the WD again but doing a meat only version, the combination of no carbs, lower calories, but good fat and protein could be a serious fat buster... or it could be miserable, sounds like fun either way!

  6. #16
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    I IF almost daily (usually from dinner to breakfast, about 16 hours), however I fail to see where there's a calorie reduction. I do a 24 hour fast once a month, and have no problem getting all my calories in at one meal. In fact, I can easily tuck away over 1200 in about 10 mins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
    I IF almost daily (usually from dinner to breakfast, about 16 hours), however I fail to see where there's a calorie reduction. I do a 24 hour fast once a month, and have no problem getting all my calories in at one meal. In fact, I can easily tuck away over 1200 in about 10 mins.
    Insight? Advice?
    The idea is not to consume the missing meal's calories you fasted over at feeding time when you break the fast. If your after calorie reduction you need to show some restraint and eat your normal amount of calories. It's tough but it can be done. Eat something with more bulk and less calories.

    My after 18hr IF meal last night was 1/2lb ground beef taco meat, 1/2 head culi rice, 1/2 can sliced olives, 3 serrano peppers and 2 glasses of water. I was quite full and satisfied.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitoi View Post
    The idea is not to consume the missing meal's calories you fasted over at feeding time when you break the fast. If your after calorie reduction you need to show some restraint and eat your normal amount of calories. It's tough but it can be done. Eat something with more bulk and less calories.

    My after 18hr IF meal last night was 1/2lb ground beef taco meat, 1/2 head culi rice, 1/2 can sliced olives, 3 serrano peppers and 2 glasses of water. I was quite full and satisfied.
    I agree with this. I fast until 6 p.m. every day. Then eat one “normal” meal (large salad, meat or cheese, sometimes a vegetable, sometimes a small starch, glass of wine), and after I let it settle (while I do dishes, help kids with homework, walk the dog, etc.), if I still feel hungry, I’ll have some blueberries with cream, or a tablespoon of almond butter, etc. I drink water, plain tea, or coffee during the day. That’s it. I think a general rule within the IF framework could be total daily calories not exceeding desired weight multiplied by 10. Once I started doing IF on a one meal per day basis, I stopped getting hungry, and can easily get full to stuffed on 1200 to 1500 calories. I’m 6’3” 172 pounds. I found that 16/8 (just skipping breakfast) didn’t really do that much, and kept me hungry. Going out to 20 hours makes a big difference. The four hour eating window, as long as you eat low-moderate carb, won’t allow you to binge because it is so easy to feel satiation.

  9. #19
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    Yes, having a smaller eating window made all the difference in easily creating a calorie deficit for me.

    I started out IFing 14/10, then gradually stretched it to 16/8 and now I easily do 18 hour fasts, occasionally stretching to 20 in the last two weeks.

    I noticed I was overeating when my eating window was too big and too early in the day. Now I aim to eat after noon and have a six hour eating window or less. I'm flexible with this as needed for vacation, etc.

    I am in the process of moving my eating window later in the day, since I've noticed I can get the munchies around 7pm, otherwise.

    Boy, does food taste good to me! I savor it much more now that I'm not eating all the time...two meals is perfect for me.
    Last edited by Dragonfly; 04-19-2011 at 08:05 AM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
    I IF almost daily (usually from dinner to breakfast, about 16 hours), however I fail to see where there's a calorie reduction. I do a 24 hour fast once a month, and have no problem getting all my calories in at one meal. In fact, I can easily tuck away over 1200 in about 10 mins.
    Insight? Advice?
    Eat s l o w e r !

    No distractions (reading, computer, TV).

    Chew every mouthful and really savor your food!

    Make sure you are well-hydrated during the fast.

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