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Thread: Try telling a bunch of bread makers that gluten is bad (awesome) page 3

  1. #21
    Dirlot's Avatar
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    The problem is you have gluten and the highly inflammation drive that most grains cause...it is a long term effect and it cannot be denied.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Him View Post
    Obviously I could be struck by a meteor tonight as I sleep. That's a controllable risk, too. With minor lifestyle changes (moving into a salt mine for example) I could severely reduce the impact of such an impact. Is it worth doing?

    It's a matter of odds. If the odds of being struck by a meteor were 1:1, then yes by all means let's move underground. 1:100... again, probably a good idea to take some preventive steps. 1:1000? It would be smart. 1:10,000? It's not crazy. 1:100,000? Eh.1:1,000,000? No, the risks involved in taking action are probably higher than the risks you are avoiding. 1:1,000,000,000? Now that would be crazy.

    So what are the odds of waking up with a gluten-induced autoimmune disease tomorrow? I know a few people with autoimmune diseases so it could happen...but at least two of them tried gluten free and it didn't help so you can't automatically blame gluten anyway.

    It's like lactose intolerance. You may be lactose intolerant. Avoiding dairy may be very important for you. That doesn't mean dairy is a problem for me.

    As for micro-tears and the like... that's interesting. I'd find it more compelling if I had experienced any symptoms myself, but I'll accept it as somewhat of a theoretical basis (assuming it isn't pseudoscientific BS like a lot of the anti-salt, anti-fat, anti-meat, anti-whatever-I-don't-like ranting).
    I cut out all gluten containing foods 3+ years ago now. Asthma improved radically (not gone, but no longer any need for steroids ). My parents thought it a fad and made it obvious that they didn't approve.

    Now, my mother is 84 and has had ongoing health issues for a lot of years - arthritis being a major one, as well as many others which I would guess were mainly inflammatory responses. She rang me on Tuesday - her Doctor (GP here in the UK) has started her on a gluten free regime!

    Obviously, both she and my father have eaten wheat all of their lives - bread, pastry, dumplings, cakes etc (she is an excellent cook) and showed no symptoms of wheat intolerance for years. Then aches and pains began to develop, the inevitable creeping weight gain, until now, her GP has made a link with wheat. I am hoping that she will stop cooking pastry etc for my father too - you never know, it might help with his growing dementia problems too.

    But at least she is able, knowing that I have been gluten free for quite a while, to ring me and ask "is porridge still OK" (no!) or "Can I make a roux sauce?" (no -use either arrowroot or potato flour) etc. Which is a help that many starting the gluten free route don't have. And she is already starting to suggest to my sisters that perhaps this that or the other problem they have would go away if they gave up gluten!!!

    So - you may have no problems at the moment. But who can tell what will occur as time goes on - and it is harder to roll back the clock than to take steps now.

  3. #23
    Him's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirlot View Post
    The problem is you have gluten and the highly inflammation drive that most grains cause...it is a long term effect and it cannot be denied.
    I must be missing something. Where do I have gluten? I have had long (6+ month) stretches without gluten in my diet. There can't be much in my diet now, without wheat.

  4. #24
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    The Joy of Gluten-Free, Sugar-Free Baking: 80 Low-Carb Recipes that Offer Solutions for Celiac Disease, Diabetes, and Weight Loss: Peter Reinhart, Denene Wallace: 9781607741169: Amazon.com: Books

    I heard an interview with one of the authors, probably America's top authority on bread baking. I have taken classes with him, he actually talked about GMO grain and the dangers.

  5. #25
    Catrin's Avatar
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    To me it is about far more than just gluten but also the anti-nutrients. Modern grains, to my mind, are toxic and "just" manipulating them even further to get rid of the gluten doesn't solve the problem. Just because our bodies find some way of dealing with them doesn't change that. I don't mention this to CW folks because nothing good would come of this approach, but this is my perspective.

    It is good, however, to read that some of the baking authorities are aware of the change in wheat over time.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Him View Post
    Well now that is interesting. You think that my disbelief of the theory you are supporting predisposes me to disease. By what mechanism? Bad mental energy???
    Occam's razor. I claim you are more likely to suffer gluten-induced autoimmune disease than I am because you eat the gluten (or am I misreading you?) whereas I don't. Not really a major leap in logic.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Occam's razor. I claim you are more likely to suffer gluten-induced autoimmune disease than I am because you eat the gluten (or am I misreading you?) whereas I don't. Not really a major leap in logic.
    More like preemptive confirmation bias.

    I have repeatedly said I am not currently eating gluten.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Him View Post
    Isn't gluten one of those "trust your body" and YMMV things?

    I've eaten gluten-laden bread for decades. I've baked. I've also gone though long periods without gluten (zero wheat of any kind) not because of paleo or anything like that but because I needed cheap food that stored well and cooked without fancy tools. Rice fit the bill, so I ate lots of rice.

    I have never felt ANY evidence that - TO ME - gluten is either harmful or helpful compared to other protein (or anything else in my diet). I'll accept the argument that fresh vegetables are less energy-dense and nutrient-rich, that starches and sugars are metabolized differently or don't provide long term satiety, that my socioeconomic situation is such that cheap bulk foods are now unwise and unneccessary, and so on, but the idea that gluten is somehow especially bad for me? No, it doesn't jive with my personal experience. I don't have any food alergies. There are foods I have never enjoyed (e.g. peanut butter...I didn't like it when I was 6, and I just don't like it now) but I'm not alergic to those foods. I have friends who do have honest food alergies and every time we eat together I'm reminded of how glad I am not to share that affliction.

    I'm not going to say that gluten is great for celiacs or other gluten-sensitive people, any more than walnuts are great for someone with a walnut alergy, but the fact that YOU are alergic to walnuts, or shrimp, or gluten, or whatever, doesn't mean that I am, or that those foods are bad in any way. If you are of a healthy weight (which MANY bread-eaters are) and in otherwise good health (which, again, is true for MANY bread-eaters), and don't have other issues, then enjoy your bread, gluten and all. If you find you have a problem, make changes. Is that wrong?
    It's basically in the same category as dairy. There's no doubt it CAN be problematic for many. You'll see thousands of stories about people cutting both out of their diet and saying how they feel so much better. Although when people cut out gluten and dairy they usually wipe out a lot of other nasty additive and preservatives that usually go along with those foods as well. You'll also see lots of reasoning of why it's linked to autoimmune disorders and how it's slowly killing you even if you don't notice. It's worth cutting out for a while to see if it makes a difference, but if it makes no difference and you enjoy those foods then you should still include them in your diet if you want. There's potential risks to nearly everything you eat. I know people who won't eat seafood because they think they think mercury is one of the biggest health hazards around.

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