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Thread: Gripe of the Day page 584

  1. #5831
    Alex Good's Avatar
    Alex Good is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabbcakes View Post
    So your point is what? That the Canadian dad was justified in letting his daughter be a hoyden in the house of his American father-in-law? And if so, please state cogent reasoning.
    While I have no clue what a "hoyden" is, I can only assume it means energetic, fun loving individual. And instead of repressing his daughter's sense of adventure with indoctrinating american swill he let her play. From what you said she wasn't hurting anyone and quite frankly your uncle had no right to touch her. I would have punched him for that.
    In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

  2. #5832
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    Actually he did have a right to touch her... she was inside HIS house climbing HIS furniture and he had asked her father to make her stop abusing HIS home several times.

    What you let your child do within your own house is one thing... allowing them to climb and act destructively toward other peoples possessions is outside your scope of decision making.

    You can have kids who understand both fun loving AND respectful.

    If someone punched me in my home for removing their ignorant child from standing on my end tables... they would be escorted from my home by the police. Because punching someone IS actually outside that persons rights.

    BTW that has nothing to do with being American... that is common sense that you don't allow children to act like that in public and in other peoples homes. Even dogs are expected to act better... unless they are kept chained to a tree in the yard.
    To teach a child any less is to do them a great disservice.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  3. #5833
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    Crabbcakes is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Actually he did have a right to touch her... she was inside HIS house climbing HIS furniture and he had asked her father to make her stop abusing HIS home several times.

    What you let your child do within your own house is one thing... allowing them to climb and act destructively toward other peoples possessions is outside your scope of decision making.

    You can have kids who understand both fun loving AND respectful.

    If someone punched me in my home for removing their ignorant child from standing on my end tables... they would be escorted from my home by the police. Because punching someone IS actually outside that persons rights.

    BTW that has nothing to do with being American... that is common sense that you don't allow children to act like that in public and in other peoples homes. Even dogs are expected to act better... unless they are kept chained to a tree in the yard.
    To teach a child any less is to do them a great disservice.
    Thanks Cori! That was well said.

    Alex, I won't engage in any kind of pissing match between you and I purely on the grounds that you are Canadian and I am American, but I will argue with you about respectful children.

    There are some additional points that you don't get: first, it really has nothing to do with "fun". This uncle did not ask her to sit like a statue with her hands folded in her lap and her eyes downturned for the duration of the visit - he asked her to stop playing hopscotch across his furniture. This uncle of mine has a huge backyard directly attached to said living room. There is everything there - fish pond, woods, hammock, fully outfitted stone deck, lawn space. If it were just a matter of preserving her oh-so-precious fun, three paces would have seen her in a place entirely suited to "energetic fun" and entirely within my uncle's approval as well.

    Also - Kelly's father absolutely knew the kind of household his father-in-law runs. He wasn't down for the first-visit-to-the-parents. This is the household of his wife - he knew it well; Kelly was well into childhood and still jumping on coffee tables. Beds, I can kind of understand - I think everybody alive has tried that one. But to think that my uncle would suddenly agree to out-of-control indoor behavior was unreasonable on the part of the father.

    I have told my own kids this: wherever you go, the strictest rules prevail, even if they are stricter that what you are accustomed to. And if you find you cannot handle other folks rules, do not go there again. That was the only thing Kelly's father got right - he left a situation he was not willing to accomodate himself to. But he cut short his wife's visit with her much beloved parents to do it.

    I would like you to address the restaurant behavior, seeing as you are all about energetic kids having "it didn't hurt anybody" fun. Do you actually smile with indulgence when an anonymous rogue kid deliberately messes with your table at an eatery?

  4. #5834
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    Side note: Alex isn't much more than a kid himself.

    It all comes down to being really naive I think.

    Kids who are allowed to act however they want with no parental boundaries have issues throughout life... seriously. They never learn to cope with direction.

    Also... If my husband allowed my child to act that way, it would NOT shorten my visit with family. I would put both of them in time out, or husband could go home alone and I'd tend the child without him... because that would be more appropriate than to allow him to continue supporting the child's disrespectful behavior.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  5. #5835
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Also... If my husband allowed my child to act that way, it would NOT shorten my visit with family. I would put both of them in time out, or husband could go home alone and I'd tend the child without him... because that would be more appropriate than to allow him to continue supporting the child's disrespectful behavior.
    Yea, I feel the same way. Just between the two of us, there is a 20-year age diff between the two (he is the older), so that put him at 40+ when this happened. And he happens to be a controlling son-of-a-gun where his wife is concerned. My aunt has told me that he really isn't loving or tender to her, basically ever. She had to grow up quick where he was concerned, but back then my cousin didn't have all the steel in her spine she possesses today.

    Much different than our men, eh?

  6. #5836
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    LOL... yeah... My husband would be the FiL removing the child for a bit of 'time out' and telling the dad if he didn't like it he could go sit in the corner too.
    I'd be clearing out a corner for the kid to chill out in for a bit.
    Once she was chill I'd take her and show her the wonders of 'outside' where frolicking is welcome.
    It's called responsible role modeling!
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  7. #5837
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    There is a very popular book called The Slap based on the reactions of a group of people after a parent slaps another kid's brat at a barbeque. Very heated topic!

  8. #5838
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    Kids really do need adults help to learn appropriate behavior and the adults need to be able to understand a child's need for energy expendature. While I would NEVER slap anyone elses kid, I definitely would correct them if they were in my home or hurting my child in public. As mentioned above, we need to set kids up for success - let them know the rules of where they are going but also understand each child's ability to obey such rules. Some kids are very high energy and need lots of rowdy play time or are poor at conforming to rules. In such cases, either remove the child or show them the "right way" to behave. Living in a society has many rules and if we don't teach our children we set them up for failure or worse in life. My kids know that some "friends" will not be invited back to our home for another visit because of their behavior. I remind them to be a good guest in other's homes if they want to be invited back.

    FWIW, a slap by a stranger at a BBQ could be the greatest gift ever, if it helped the child understand the reality of life. Natural consiquences (Sorry - spelling) slap us in many ways - sometimes we get hurt by stupidity and sometimes we go to jail.

  9. #5839
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    I can assure you that at least in the part of Canada I live in, that child's behaviour, and her father's, would also be completely socially unacceptable.

    The most wonderful, lovable, fun children I know are the ones whose parents set appropriate boundaries, allow them age-appropriate autonomy (so things like choices over what to wear or what game to play, for example), and make clear what the rules are and what the consequences are for both good and bad behaviour. I've known most of those kids since birth, and they continue to grow into loving, respectful, and happy people. They are the children who are not necessarily the most popular kid in school, but the ones who are frequently well liked by their classmates, the ones who win service awards and are the team players and positive leaders among their peers. Their parents have given them the tools to be successful in life, and I think that's fantastic. Those are the parents I watch and learn from as I consider having children of my own.

    The friends whose children are badly behaved monsters who destroy things, scream and fight constantly, jump on furniture and so on--well, let's say that not only are their children not particularly welcome in our home generally, but we also don't like going to their houses. Although it is quite amazing how polite they are when we are caring for them and set reasonable boundaries for them: they're almost like different kids. But they have parents who don't reinforce those things, so they are often great when we have them alone and then awful once their parents are around again.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  10. #5840
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    I grew up in the country, so going anywhere was pretty much a treat. If we misbehaved, we were bundled back in the car and went home. She walked away from full grocery carts to do this. There really was no "maybe this time she won't." Nu huh- if we couldn't behave in society then we couldn't be in it. Didn't take us long to figure that out.

    We had an exchange student from Chile when I was in highschool for a month or so. Spoiled does not begin to describe this boy. We found out later that we were the only family with which he was not tardy to school. Missing a few times, but there was no way to control him after he got on the bus. Apparently we kids did a good job of impressing on him that you did NOT want to be stuck in the car with Mom for 20 miles up to school if you missed the bus
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