Reality check: Counting calories page 21

[Dragonfly]

This is describing me to the proverbial T.

In order to lose fat (not necessarily weight, but fat), then, you would need the proper hormonal milieu to not store fat. But you would also need some reason to burn stored bodyfat. This also requires the proper hormonal balance (more glucagon, less insulin), but that's not sufficient to make the body prefer fuel stored in adipose cells to fuel consumed in the diet. I do think you need a caloric deficit and that larger caloric deficits will burn more stored fat providing (and this is a big caveat) that the calorie restriction does not cause a change in your underlying basal metabolism. Research suggests that adequate protein and avoiding overtraining protects against that.

Yes! You've got it scooby. Love your post.

[zoebird]

i knew you were of the dionysian sort. my favorite kind. life is pleasurable.

[Paleobird]

That's not alot of food.

If you like to keep your physical activity I think you should dial back the IF to 1-2 days at most or do it a la LeanGains (12 hr fast-12 hr eating window for women). If you want to keep the IF as is then you might want to dial back the physical activity. And sorry for the assumption, but when I quickly went thru this thread I think you mentioned that you sometimes don't intend to IF, you just aren't hungry some days and skip eating altogether (correct me if I'm wrong). So I assumed when you DO eat, it isn't much (and I don't think what you described for dinner was alot lol).

And please, do share that primal gravy recipe!

PS. out of curiousity what's your lean body mass?

And I forgot to mention the goose liver pate with crudites for appetizers and the fact that there was goose fat in the squash. (I still have a whole jar of fat left for future use).

No, my IFs were never of the intentional, must lose weight, must control, must limit self, kind of mind set. It was more like, "Wow, it's 4pm and I haven't eaten yet today." I just get busy and forget to eat but I'm not actively hungry and everyone here keeps saying, "Eat when hungry, don't when not." so I figured it was no big deal.

Because asked by several people: The secret to primal gravy is water chestnut powder found at asian markets.
Mix goose fat and homemade chicken stock
add water chestnut powder to thicken
add any spices you like
decide at the last minute to add some greek yogurt for creaminess
=perfection

[Paleobird]

Hey Robin
I'm right there with you. I didn't lose a pound (and if we are going for fat loss...that didn't happen either) when I weighed/measured this month. I held steady, but I didn't drop.
I've held steady for almost two months now. I have been Primal for 4 months, so that is half of the time I have been primal. There was the first weight/fat loss and then nothing. If you find something that kicks it for you, let me know! I'll do the same.

This makes me wonder if cutting a little of the fat and focusing more on the protein would help. I know that when I am hungry, I reach for the fat first because I know it will make me feel fuller, faster. Time to experiment.

Yep, I have lost and gained the same five pounds several times in the past five months. I hate to say this folks, but I think it's time to cut out the bacon. Generally move toward leaner protein. I think the fatty stuff like bacon is used by a lot of people getting off of a sugar addiction the way methadone is used for heroin addicts. It keeps people sane while detoxifying their systems of carbs. But, once there is no more carb/sugar addiction (in my case, there never was one to start with), the methadone is not longer needed and can become an addiction in it's own right.

[scooby]

Of course, the problem is that excessive protein can apparently cause insulin spikes too. This is kind of where you start seeing splits among the paleo gurus. Some would say go to lean proteins. Some would say to cut protein and use more fat garnishes, but I think they'd all say to be mindful of calories.

[Dragonfly]

Of course, the problem is that excessive protein can apparently cause insulin spikes too.

I read (on PaNu, I think) that protein only causes an insulin spike if large amounts are consumed in one meal.

Anecdotally, I notice that if I eat 1/4 pound of steak at a meal, I don't experience a blood sugar spike and if I eat 1/2 pound of meat in one meal, I actually feel high. (Smallish woman, here!) So I tend to space out my protein (~100 g/day) over my 3 meals.

[js290]

In order to lose fat (not necessarily weight, but fat), then, you would need the proper hormonal milieu to not store fat. But you would also need some reason to burn stored bodyfat. This also requires the proper hormonal balance (more glucagon, less insulin), but that's not sufficient to make the body prefer fuel stored in adipose cells to fuel consumed in the diet. I do think you need a caloric defecit and that larger caloric defecits will burn more stored fat providing (and this is a big caveat) that the calorie restriction does not cause a change in your underlying basal metabolism. Research suggests that adequate protein and avoiding overtraining protects against that. But the upshot is that losing fat, as opposed to preventing storing fat, requires one additional necessary condition.

I think you have the causality backwards. You can't on one hand claim you have proper hormonal balance and then on the other hand give credit to calorie restriction, unless you can explain how calories affect hormones. Hormones get credit for it all. When you are metabolizing your own fat for fuel, you'll naturally eat less. Your hormonal balance is causing you to burn fat which is causing you to eat less. Thinking fat loss is caused by you eating less is a cum hoc fallacy.

[scooby]

I think you have the causality backwards. You can't on one hand claim you have proper hormonal balance and then on the other hand give credit to calorie restriction, unless you can explain how calories affect hormones. Hormones get credit for it all. When you are metabolizing your own fat for fuel, you'll naturally eat less. Your hormonal balance is causing you to burn fat which is causing you to eat less. Thinking fat loss is caused by you eating less is a cum hoc fallacy.

My hormonal balance is not causing me to eat 1000 calories a day. I've eaten fewer carbs and more calories than that on other programs. It certainly makes eating 1000 to 1200 calories a day possible without losing my mind, but it's not as if I can't and haven't had celebration days where I ate 1800 calories. And I could have eaten more. I'm not crediting calorie restriction with the hormonal balance. That comes from carb restriction. I am saying that once carb restriction helps you achieve proper hormonal balance (which certainly has the salutory effect of decreasing appetite) you will still lose more fat (as opposed to water clinging to glycogen) by increasing your body's resort to stored body fat as fuel.

[Paleobird]

I'm not crediting calorie restriction with the hormonal balance. That comes from carb restriction. I am saying that once carb restriction helps you achieve proper hormonal balance (which certainly has the salutory effect of decreasing appetite) you will still lose more fat (as opposed to water clinging to glycogen) by increasing your body's resort to stored body fat as fuel.

This is well put, scooby.

1)Get hormones in balance by restricting carbs (already done in my case)
2)Restrict calories to encourage the burning of stored fat

[IntrinsicArt]

I think it's time to cut out the bacon.

I think I will be doing the same. And maybe tracking calories for a bit. I don't think I am over eating, but I might be under a bit. Could be that my body is holding on because I'm not giving it enough. We shall see...