Reality check: Counting calories page 17

[Paleobird]

ironically, exercise is a stressor. so is calorie restriction.

js290's delivery was a little condescending, but i agree with his points. laws of thermodynamics do apply to us, but not in the ways we think it does, because we have these things called hormones. if it were a matter of just reducing calories to get smaller, then there wouldn't be these cases of obesity in places where there is a lack of the right food. there wouldn't be these people that seemingly eat endless amount of food and stay lean.

its not about limiting the amount of food, its getting your hormones under control, and finding WHAT food allow you to accomplish this.

we are all so obsessed with this calories in/calories out model and while thermodynamics certainly do apply to us, our default thinking is to just reduce the left side of the equation and everything will be hunky dory. but we all know that it is not, because if it were that simple, we would not have all these stories about 'dieting' being so hard and so, so many people failing at just 'eating less'.

if i calorie restrict, sure, i get smaller, but the level of my body fat stays the same, and sometimes it goes up. and i am good with restriction for a while, and all of a sudden i'll go on a several day bender where i eat my face off.

reduce the left side of the equation, and the right side could get even lower.

what i think people need to do is focus more on the right side of the equation. put the right amount and right kind of energy into the left side so that the right side naturally gets higher than the left. if you are forcing yourself to take those walks, if you don't wake up in the morning and feel like you could run a marathon* right then and there, then you're not giving your body what it needs to make the right side higher than the left.

But stressors are not to be avoided at at costs are they? If so I could just sit here with a plate of bacon and lose weight.

Everybody keeps saying it the hormones and I agree it probably is. But how exactly does one change ones hormones? The only advice offered by Taubes is don't eat carbs. I'm already doing that. I'm only eating the "good calories" but might there still be such a thing as too much of a good thing?

[batty]

But stressors are not to be avoided at at costs are they? If so I could just sit here with a plate of bacon and lose weight.

well, no, because then we'd have to live our lives in isotanks and just not live. heh. however - a lot of exercise + not enough calories to fuel exercise = stress on the body = cortisol production, which results in.....belly fat.

there are quite a number of people who have posted in the lengthy 'before and after photos' thread who have changed to PB and have leaned out beautifully without a lot of exercise and yes, eating a plate full of bacon. i cant recall their names specifically but they are there.

Everybody keeps saying it the hormones and I agree it probably is. But how exactly does one change ones hormones? The only advice offered by Taubes is don't eat carbs. I'm already doing that. I'm only eating the "good calories" but might there still be such a thing as too much of a good thing?

taubes also says that exercising for weight loss is futile.

you can't change your hormones, but you can change what you give your body to change how your hormones react.

Yes, I agree that some serious genetic diseases exist which are best treated with modern, truly life-saving drugs, but for the vast majority of the minor genetic variations that exist throughout the human genome, the real deciding factor as to whether or not a particular gene will be expressed in a particular manner, if at all, comes down to what you eat, how you move, what kind of air you breathe, what you think – in other words your environment.

[MountainDew]

however - a lot of exercise + not enough calories to fuel exercise = stress on the body = cortisol production, which results in.....belly fat.

This.

I know you don't like to count calories but you have to find out where you are in terms of calorie consumption to find out if you are (or aren't) stressing your body. You don't need to "feel" stressed for your body to be stressed out.

At your age/height/weight you should be consuming about 2300 (yeah, I know, may sound like alot) just to MAINTAIN your current bw. A calorie deficit of 500-1000 per day should result in 1-2 lb fat loss. But if you're doing more than that plus the exercise than cortisol production is going to kick in.

You're IF'ing for 3-4 days for 24 hrs each (why that is I still don't comprehend). I'm going with the assumption that on your non-IF days you're consuming around 1600 calories. If you only IF 3 days a week you're still only consuming 6400 calories a week. Average that it comes out to 915 calories a day. If you're not exercising that may be fine but you are. And your body is basically doing a "WTF is this chick doing?" to you and being stubborn with those few lbs.

You don't need to obsess over your calorie count (no one should) but it doesn't hurt to see where you are every once in a blue if things don't seem right for you.

Maybe I'm not right. Who knows? I mainly come here for the chicks.

[Paleobird]

a lot of exercise + not enough calories to fuel exercise = stress on the body = cortisol production, which results in.....belly fat.

there are quite a number of people who have posted in the lengthy 'before and after photos' thread who have changed to PB and have leaned out beautifully without a lot of exercise and yes, eating a plate full of bacon. i cant recall their names specifically but they are there.

taubes also says that exercising for weight loss is futile.

you can't change your hormones, but you can change what you give your body to change how your hormones react.

Don't worry. I don't intend to take either calorie restriction or exercise to a fanatical level.

The people who leaned out are like your buddy TFG. Switching from a self described "twinkie hound" to PB he dropped that first 30 like it was nothing.

I thought exercise helped improve the hormonal balance by increasing muscle mass. Why does Taubes think it's futile again?

So what should I be giving my body to change how the hormones react? Other than minimal carb which I already do.

[Dragonfly]

I thought exercise helped improve the hormonal balance by increasing muscle mass. Why does Taubes think it's futile again?

He thinks it's futile as a way to lose body fat. Cites studies showing that people tend to overeat when they exercise, so they never create a calorie deficit.

So what should I be giving my body to change how the hormones react? Other than minimal carb which I already do.

Fewer carbs if you are as carb-sensitive as I am. You may still be eating too many and keeping your insulin levels too high for the fat to be released.

Bioidentical estrogen, if your post-menopausal estrogen is too low (low estrogen triggers belly fat storage because fat produces estrogen in post menopausal women--but that might not be kosher with the docs, given your medical history...)

FWIW, I am leaning out nicely on my 20 g carbs and 1500 calories. I have plenty of energy now that I have keto-adapted.

[marcadav]

Some times hormones, like vitamins, MAY need to be supplemented. If thyroid hormones are low, and yes I know yours is "fine", then there's a good chance supplementing will be necessary.

I believe you said you are post menopausal. That alone indicates a lowering of sex hormones. Low estrogen can lead to the body clinging to fat, specially belly fat, as estrogen can be made from fat cells.

[NutMeg]

Well, if you are like ME then minimal carbs is the wrong answer. If I go below 50-75 a day I don't lose.

Have you started to track your intake yet? If not I would suggest tracking for a week, no changes yet. Do it at the end of the day. That way you are not 'counting' anything, just seeing what is going on. THEN make a call about what you think needs adjustment. Try those changes for a period of time long enough to see a change, 4-6 weeks. Then go from there. You might be surprised wtih what you find. I think seeing exactly what is going on before making changes helps you know what changes to make.

[milkycereal]

Honestly, I don't belive Grok's looked lean and ripped and perfect. I think grokettes may have been kinda chubby...I think the body WANTS to have fat but since everyone eats so many carbs we never have to use any of it.

I think if you realy want to get ripped and lean you gata watch what you eat more carefully. Ive never been fat, im eating this way to feel good and be healthy and eventually get really lean and strong, bruce lee style.

So in my case, yeah im gonna have to watch myself. Because I can easilly eat 3000+ calories primal or not, easilly. And im a 120 lb male. Im gonna shoot for 1700 on non-workout days, 2000 on workout days.

That being said on sundays I let myself go (primally, of course and not too much, I just go with my gut those days instead of keeping track)

[winencandy]

Have you started to track your intake yet? If not I would suggest tracking for a week, no changes yet. Do it at the end of the day. That way you are not 'counting' anything, just seeing what is going on.

I've been tracking for the past couple of days. I enter it at the end of the day, but because I know I'm going to enter it, I have to "count" or measure. I've noticed that I've eaten less while I'm tracking. Probably because I know I'll have to enter it. So I know that the #'s I see at the end of the day don't represent what I had been eating before I started tracking.

For example, I entered today’s eats in FitDay:
Total Calories: 1,732
Fat: 136.5 g, 1,198 C, 69%
Carb: 66 g, 244 C, 14%
Protein: 71.6 g, 290 C, 17%

BUT I know that if I wasn't tracking, I would have also had about 8-10 macadamia nuts, a couple coconut hearts, and a square of 85%.

[NutMeg]

See I don't do that. I just eat and don't change it just because I am tracking.