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  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by zad View Post
    However, once I started taking charge, it unleashed something in both of us that has just been incredible.
    i think this is largely influenced by the rest of the couple's lifestyle. sex is basically stress-relieving play for adults, right? if you look at play therapy for kids (or just general play), they tend to act out their roles in make-believe. like when i've been a bear of a mom, my kids will sometimes play house and yell at each other, often saying very similar things that i do when i'm grumpy. well, in play for adults (aka, sex) IF the couple is pretty equal in the rest of their relationship, the man will probably be a more dominant in the bedroom (cross-culturally men tend to dominate women), but still mostly equal. if one partner is more submissive or dependent in the rest of the relationship, that partner will likely enjoy being more dominant in the bedroom, and the normally dominant person will be more likely to enjoy submitting. gotta have control somewhere, right? just my hypothesis.

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebbles67 View Post
    [B]
    Paleobird Does the "good girl" thing still apply when the ravishing fantasy includes multiple ravishers? Not saying I would ever do it, but I think about it sometimes. I'm a Baaad girl and I like it. lol
    Are you ovulating again?

  3. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    i think this is largely influenced by the rest of the couple's lifestyle. sex is basically stress-relieving play for adults, right? if you look at play therapy for kids (or just general play), they tend to act out their roles in make-believe. like when i've been a bear of a mom, my kids will sometimes play house and yell at each other, often saying very similar things that i do when i'm grumpy. well, in play for adults (aka, sex) IF the couple is pretty equal in the rest of their relationship, the man will probably be a more dominant in the bedroom (cross-culturally men tend to dominate women), but still mostly equal. if one partner is more submissive or dependent in the rest of the relationship, that partner will likely enjoy being more dominant in the bedroom, and the normally dominant person will be more likely to enjoy submitting. gotta have control somewhere, right? just my hypothesis.
    In my experience the men who are the most submissive during the day, the guy you never notice who gets sand kicked in his face by life, is the guy who really wants to do some ravishing at night. Sometimes the most outwardly studly dudes who you think would be so dominant are really the ones who want to get tied up and spanked. I think balance both in and out of the bedroom would be nice.

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Regarding who initiates and does the ravishing. I don't think we are "wired" for it to be all one way or all the other. Individuals have preferences, sure but neither one is more or less primal. The optimal relationship, IMO, is one in which the lead just shifts naturally back and forth.
    I completely agree. how boring it is for one person always to initiate. sometimes i like to surprise my husband.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I think most of the female fantasies about being "ravished" actually come from puritanical guilt about our sexuality. If I am being ravished, I can have sex and still be "a good girl".
    i used to have these fantasies when i was a virginal teenager who was "saving" herself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pebbles67 View Post
    ...Paleobird Does the "good girl" thing still apply when the ravishing fantasy includes multiple ravishers? Not saying I would ever do it, but I think about it sometimes. I'm a Baaad girl and I like it. lol
    haha, don't think you're the only one! of course, in my head, the "ravishers" were gentle and "generous."

  5. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    I completely agree. how boring it is for one person always to initiate. sometimes i like to surprise my husband.

    i used to have these fantasies when i was a virginal teenager who was "saving" herself.
    haha, don't think you're the only one! of course, in my head, the "ravishers" were gentle and "generous."
    Sure, gang rapists usually are the gentle, generous type.

  6. #516
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    paleobird: ciliakat's article (posted way early ago) posits that position as flawed in a fascinating way. it's a classicly freudian position (explained in the article), and while applicable in some cases, it asserts women as pathological about sex. i don't think we are. at least, not as much. and, it explains some other possible theories, and i've read a few more about potential "primal" social structure that may bear out (matriarchal vs patriachal societies and such).

    but i do agree that there should be 'flow' between both parties.

    dh just got shut down, btw, again due to timing/approach. he's done little to make things go well coming up to this point, and i was working and had just managed to get the little one down for a late nap, and then DH finishes something (don't know what) and just comes in and asks if i want to. it's like "yes, i want to; but no, i don't want to. it would be a lot of work to get myself up and going (receptive), and he's looking for a quickie (like i initiated last week) because we know the LO won't be asleep for long. i don't have the time i need. i explained this, and told him to go and read some more of this information, because he is NOT getting it. i explained it again, and he says he doesn't see the difference. so, i tried to explain it again. i don't know if it's working. LOL

    anyway, we are becoming more practiced, so it's working out. but slowly.

  7. #517
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    I am a firm believer in "Whatever floats yer boat" or in this case your kayak. And, I am anything but Freudian in my theories. I don't think women are pathological at all. I think our whole society is pathological about sex. Also, there is a big difference between wanting someone else to take the lead and fantasizing about being raped.

    I really hope you a DH work things through and get those kayaks in the water again.

  8. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I am a firm believer in "Whatever floats yer boat" or in this case your kayak. And, I am anything but Freudian in my theories. I don't think women are pathological at all. I think our whole society is pathological about sex. Also, there is a big difference between wanting someone else to take the lead and fantasizing about being raped.

    i agree about society being pathological about sex. i don't fantasize about being raped, "ravished" must have a different meaning for me. "ravished" is about degree of force in a trusting way, not about coercion, if that makes any sense.

    zoebird, i'd love to read that article that cillakat wrote. do you remember the title?

  9. #519
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    yeah, it's all good. and i wasn't accusing you of anything in particular, just asserting that the idea that you posit is addressed in that article in a fascinating way, and how it connects to the (older) fruedian idea.

    and i don't think we are, by in large, pathological about sex. i do think we have large cultural issues related to it, but i don't think that is necessarily pathology.

  10. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    i agree about society being pathological about sex. i don't fantasize about being raped, "ravished" must have a different meaning for me. "ravished" is about degree of force in a trusting way, not about coercion, if that makes any sense.
    Ravished just sounds better than raped. It sounds like something the hero of one of those "bodice ripper" novels does as the "helpless" but secretly willing heroine cries, "Don't! Stop! Don't stop........"

    As long as there is a good trust going on, role playing games can be a lot of fun.

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