Omega 6 recommendations - what's the evidence? page

[Hilary]

Today I read another article saying that since nuts and chicken are high in Omega 6, we shouldn't eat them. Just eat beef (/lamb, bison, elk etc) and oily fish once a week to get the right ratio.

I wonder if there's any direct evidence that eating nuts and chicken is bad for you? Any epidemiological studies showing how inflammatory diseases increase with increased consumption of nuts? Any individual experiences, even, of curing arthritis by giving up chicken?

Or is this all basically extrapolation from what's known about the omega 3:6 ratio in general and the evils of processed vegetable oils?

[Stu]

My guess is its extrapolation, CW still loves chicken and nuts as ok sources of food if you are going to add a little fat too your diet. They aren't going to do any research that makes them look bad.

[Hilary]

My guess is its extrapolation, CW still loves chicken and nuts as ok sources of food if you are going to add a little fat too your diet. They aren't going to do any research that makes them look bad.

I'm guessing extrapolation, too. Thing is, I'm really not convinced extrapolation is a good enough reason to make great big alterations to diet. It hasn't worked too well for CW.

A little quick Googling brings up this article. It goes downhill a bit after the first four or five paragraphs as it migrates into extrapoland itself (coconuts contain saturated fat, ohnoes!), but includes links to a bunch of studies about eating nuts, and the drift is pretty clear. So if in theory they should be bad for us, but in practice all the evidence says they're good for us, what do you believe...?

That's why I asked if anyone has personal experience of cutting out nuts or chicken and seeing improvements. I'm wondering if there's any evidence at all, even anecdotal, against these foods.

[john_e_turner_ii]

I think moderation is key once again. If you are consuming several handfuls of nuts each day, then that's probably not healthy. However, a serving each day or a few tablespoons of nut butter are probably fine. I eat chicken every week, but I try to vary my meats each day. One day beef, then pork, chicken, fish, and so on. I used to sweat all these details, but it got to be an obsessive thing. Now I just make what I feel like eating and enjoy.

[Stu]

Was it Don Mateaz's article on Primal Wisdom that you read? I just read it after reading your post, and it makes a pretty strong case in my opinion to avoid chicken in your diet based off of the Omega 6 content.

[tfarny]

I think it depends on whether you are shooting for 100% perfect or are content to live and let live (not the chickens, though!) once you get to 80%. Matez is just reviewing research and talking about implications for optimal health, he doesn't have much to say about the real-world consequences of cooking up a whole pasture raised chicken once a week, assuming you've given up industrial oils and margarine completely and are eating your fish. Personally I try not to get too worked up about this kind of thing, though the walnuts bit did interest me.

[Annlee]

Stephan Guyenet has addressed this here - http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...lications.html

"So what's left that's unique about the Lyon trial? It was the only trial to dramatically reduce omega-6 consumption, to below 4% of calories, while increasing omega-3 consumption from plant and seafood sources. In my opinion, that combination is the only plausible explanation for the large reduction in heart attacks and total mortality. That combination also happens to be a consistent feature of the real Mediterranean diet. In both Crete and France, omega-6 intake is relatively low, and omega-3 intake is relatively high. They also eat more real food than processed food in general, a factor that I don't underestimate."

[Hilary]

Nice link, thanks. Following links from comments I found my way to http://www.omegasixthedevilsfat.com/trial.aspx . I should be careful what I wish for, right? I'm sure hunting through that lot would reveal something about dietary patterns.

Not eating luminous yellow vegetable oils and margarine makes elementary sense to me. (Also, it's not exactly a sacrifice, is it?) Avoiding whole, naturally-occurring foods like nuts, seeds and birds (and pigs) makes not so much sense to me.

Another post from Stephan helpfully explains what the Lyon diet people with the lower mortality rate were actually eating:

Patients in the experimental group were advised by the research cardiologist and dietician, during a one-hour-long session, to adopt a Mediterranean-type diet: more bread, more root vegetables and green vegetables, more fish, less meat (beef, lamb, and pork to be replaced with poultry), no day without fruit, and butter and cream to be replaced with margarine supplied by the study.

Because the patients would not accept olive oil- traditional to the Mediterranean diet- as the only fat [because French people use more butter than olive oil- SG], a rapeseed (canola) oil-based margarine (Astra-Calve, Paris, France) was supplied free for the whole family to experimental subjects. This margarine had a composition comparable to olive oil [mon oeil- SG] with 15% saturated fatty acids, 48% oleic acid but 5.4% 18:1 trans. However, it was slightly higher in linoleic [omega-6- SG] (16.4 vs 8.6%) and more so in alpha-linolenic acid [omega-3- SG] (4.8 vs 0.6%), a fatty acid markedly higher (3 fold) in the plasma of the Cretan cohort in the Seven Country study compared to that of Zutphen (Netherlands).

The oils recommended for salads and food preparation were rapeseed and olive oils exclusively. Moderate alcohol consumption in the form of wine was allowed at meals. At each subsequent visit of the experimental patients, a dietary survey and further counseling were done by the research dietician.

So... the group who had a 70% reduction in mortality ate less beef and lamb and more chicken (and there's no mention of nuts and seeds).
Hm.

[Primal Toad]

I think moderation is key once again. If you are consuming several handfuls of nuts each day, then that's probably not healthy. However, a serving each day or a few tablespoons of nut butter are probably fine. I eat chicken every week, but I try to vary my meats each day. One day beef, then pork, chicken, fish, and so on. I used to sweat all these details, but it got to be an obsessive thing. Now I just make what I feel like eating and enjoy.

You said it perfectly. I do the exact same. But, beef is my favorite so I enjoy that more. Oh, and its pretty cheap since I buy 1/4 cow at a time!

I think it depends on whether you are shooting for 100% perfect or are content to live and let live (not the chickens, though!) once you get to 80%. Matez is just reviewing research and talking about implications for optimal health, he doesn't have much to say about the real-world consequences of cooking up a whole pasture raised chicken once a week, assuming you've given up industrial oils and margarine completely and are eating your fish. Personally I try not to get too worked up about this kind of thing, though the walnuts bit did interest me.

Exactly! I am personally working on not worrying too much. Too much stress will lead to a faster death than eating too much pastured chicken from a local farm! Come on people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walnuts... I avoid. 10 grams is in fact waaaaaaaaaaaay too much! Like I said, I wish to worry less. But, 10 grams?!?!?!?! But, once or twice a month won't hurt if one loves them. I go for almonds and macadamias.

[Primal Toad]

I think moderation is key once again. If you are consuming several handfuls of nuts each day, then that's probably not healthy. However, a serving each day or a few tablespoons of nut butter are probably fine. I eat chicken every week, but I try to vary my meats each day. One day beef, then pork, chicken, fish, and so on. I used to sweat all these details, but it got to be an obsessive thing. Now I just make what I feel like eating and enjoy.

You said it perfectly. I do the exact same. But, beef is my favorite so I enjoy that more. Oh, and its pretty cheap since I buy 1/4 cow at a time!

I think it depends on whether you are shooting for 100% perfect or are content to live and let live (not the chickens, though!) once you get to 80%. Matez is just reviewing research and talking about implications for optimal health, he doesn't have much to say about the real-world consequences of cooking up a whole pasture raised chicken once a week, assuming you've given up industrial oils and margarine completely and are eating your fish. Personally I try not to get too worked up about this kind of thing, though the walnuts bit did interest me.

Exactly! I am personally working on not worrying too much. Too much stress will lead to a faster death than eating too much pastured chicken from a local farm! Come on people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Walnuts... I avoid. 10 grams is in fact waaaaaaaaaaaay too much! Like I said, I wish to worry less. But, 10 grams?!?!?!?! But, once or twice a month won't hurt if one loves them. I go for almonds and macadamias.