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Thread: Critique my " Mass gaining " plan. page

  1. #1
    Nocturnalhorse's Avatar
    Nocturnalhorse is offline Senior Member
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    Critique my " Mass gaining " plan.

    Primal Fuel
    Currently weighing 150 pounds with 7% bf...

    I used to workout in the evening but because of my schedule I have shifted in the mornings...

    Post workout..

    Papaya salad sprinkled with cinnamon

    20 mins later..

    Meal 1

    8 ounces of beef or bison
    3-4 eggs
    Broccoli
    Sweet potato ( workout days only )
    Cup of Coffee


    Meal 2

    10 ounces of Chicken or Turkey
    Kale

    Meal 3

    I was having a glass of raw cow's or goat's milk but am planning to skip it for a while and have this instead. Glass or two of milk didn't really help me much.

    8 ounces of veal or 5-6 eggs
    Spinach

    Meal 4

    8 ounces of beef or lamb
    Cauliflower

    I also want to go dairy free, avoid nuts of all sorts, dried fruits and most fruits with the exception of papaya or banana post-workout. I also do IF from time to time.

    So guys what do you think..???

  2. #2
    Pandadude's Avatar
    Pandadude is offline Senior Member
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    Seems like your mass gain plan is unnecessarily low carb. You eat a papaya/banana and 1 sweet potato postworkout. You didnt mention how streneous your workouts are, but this could be insufficient for restoring muscle glycogen. Depending on your general activity level, and the leanness of the meats you're eating, calories could also be too low. If you find you aren't gaining weight at a reasonable pace, I would increase calories (personally I would do a quart of raw goat milk if I had that available to me!). Also appears you're training fasted in the morning, am i right? This is unfavorable for muscle synthesis, so if you always do so some BCAA's might be in order pre-workout.

    Here is a great post from T-nation user Dave Rogerson on low carb mass gain:
    "Logic would tell you that with a positive energy balance and enough nutrients to support muscle growth that yes even on a low carb diet you can gain muscle.

    But it gets tricky, yes glycogen replenishment is an issue, and certain glucogenic amino acids can help support this process, but I think that the issue of anabolism goes beyond simply glycogen replenishment.

    If we look at how low carbohydrate diets function for the most part, and especially when an individual wants to lose bodyfat, essentially by eliminating carbs we create an environment for the use of other available fuel sources as energy. By eliminating carbohydrates from the diet, metabolism shifts from one that favours storage (due to the absence of certain hormones and alterations in the presence of certain enzymes) to one that favours energy liberation.

    Carbohydrates have some pretty useful functions and for the most part do not have to be removed from the diet to see favourable alterations in fat or muscle tissue. In the past carbohydrates have been wrongly promoted and demonized equally. As many authors have discussed, quality and appropriately timed carbohydrates probably wont lead to the myriad of health problems and loss of bodycomposition as has been suggested prior.

    For the majority of people, and especially when trying to get bigger, carbohydrates shouldnt be feared.

    It isnt neccessarily the carbohydrates that make you fat, but the mismanagement of the carbohydrates."

  3. #3
    yodiewan's Avatar
    yodiewan is online now Senior Member
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    Looks pretty good, definitely lots of good protein there. I would say check out Leangains if you haven't already. I've been following the basic ideas that Martin lays out on his blog and I've been getting great results. Progress is pretty slow, but definitely good (getting leaner, which gets hard to do when you're already somewhat lean).

    Here's a quick run-down for those not familiar with Leangains: Basically, you fast for 16 hours each day, breaking the fast soon before (or after) your lifting. The post-workout meal is the largest and is a high-carb, fairly high protein, low fat meal. After that meal your calories and carbs should drop until the end of your 8 hour eating window.

    I totally agree with pandadude. Initially I tried bulking while still being low carb by adding in a fair amount of fatty meat + heavy cream. This did not work for me. I gained weight, but a large percentage was fat. I've had much better results with high-carb post workout meals. I have a theory that low carb is great for weight loss but not weight gain. And similarly that high-carb is great for weight gain but not weight loss. I think this is why the Leangains approach works so well; you eat most of your carbs and calories post-workout when they're most likely to be used to build muscle and at other times, keep calories and carbs lower so that you can lose fat.
    Last edited by yodiewan; 01-04-2011 at 12:21 PM. Reason: saw pandadude's post

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    Nocturnalhorse's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention that I also get plenty of fats from coconut oil, avocado's and extra virgin olive oil. I generally feel and perform better with minimal or no grains in my diet....more like protein fat as opposed to protein carbs. Postworkout I have also started having creatine and glutamine. ( Not a big fan of whey ). I am following Wendler's 531 four days a week which lasts for an hour. and running twice a week for 20 mins.
    Last edited by Nocturnalhorse; 01-04-2011 at 12:27 PM.

  5. #5
    Nocturnalhorse's Avatar
    Nocturnalhorse is offline Senior Member
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    Slightly modified my plan..

    Postworkout...

    Meal 1

    3-4 eggs
    8 ounces of beef or bison in coconut milk curry
    Broccoli and mushroom with red onions and garlic
    Ginger tea.



    Meal 2

    10 ounces of Chicken or Turkey
    Handful of almonds/walnuts/pistachios/macadamia's
    Kale salad.

    Meal 3

    8 ounces of veal or 5-6 eggs
    Avacado and spinach with red onions

    Meal 4

    8 ounces of beef or lamb
    Cauliflower or red cabbage with onions and garlic
    Glass of red wine and some dark chocolate. ;-)

  6. #6
    Nocturnalhorse's Avatar
    Nocturnalhorse is offline Senior Member
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    I also have a habit of eating 3 table spoons of coconut oil a day besides using it in food. I sometimes also guzzle a small cup of evo right after a meal.

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    First off, a small cup of evo sounds disgusting to me, uurgh.

    Maybe I missed it, but I don't see anything about how hard or long your workouts are. Are you just doing a 5x5 rotation? Are you doing olympic lifts? Are you crossfitting?

    Your modified diet still looks very low carb for someone trying to gain mass. Sweet potatos... repeat that to yourself 20 times. Seriously, knowing what your doing for your workout will help a lot.

    Also, unless you are specifically going the Lean Gains route, I personally believe IF'ing is not the most effective way to gain mass. Your body needs energy to heal, repair and grow. If your body isn't trying to heal, repair and grow then you are not even going to build mass in the first place.

  8. #8
    Nocturnalhorse's Avatar
    Nocturnalhorse is offline Senior Member
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    Lol, it's a matter of acquired taste, Rivvin. I do Wendler's 5 3 1 four days a week. Workouts last for around 45 mins to an hour. I sprint once or twice a week. I definitely plan on re-introducing some raw dairy ( quart of raw goat's milk post-workout) instead of potatoes which I hate from the bottom of my heart. I have natural aversion towards grains with the exception of a slice of pizza thrown in once in a while.

  9. #9
    Pandadude's Avatar
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    Alright, lifting 4 days a week and running 2 days a week is a fair amount of activity. Carbs postworkout in the 150g range on lifting days seems reasonable, and it might also be beneficial to play with a carb load somewhere in the max-effort week of your program. The handful of mixed nuts you included seems like a good idea: Very rich in minerals, they will make sure you don't have some random defficiency compromising your hormones.

  10. #10
    RezH's Avatar
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    I would scrap the twice a week runs if you are trying to gain mass. Go for daily 30 minute walks, and do some kind of HIIT/sprints twice a week instead. Even Wendler recommends this.

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