The more I learn, the more I am confused page 2

[Lojasmo]

Religion is not a good source for scientific information (among other things)

[IvyBlue]

Another discussion here http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mal+christians that gets into the meaning of "bread."

This word is a bad translation taken too literally IMO. I've never read the book the friendly LDS's on the subway gave me so many years ago but perhaps this misinterpretation is at the heart of the LDS take on this.

[Griff]

PB makes so much sense to me (I've read the book twice and have been on MDA frequently), yet the more I read and learn about it, I must admit that the more confused I get (maybe CW and tradition has me in a firm headlock!). The latest is this: [URL="http://www.annals.org/content/153/5/289.abstract"]

It is frustrating to me that scientists (who supposedly are so dang smart and definitely smarter than me!) seem to come to such different conclusions... why can it not be so much simpler?!

Because that's how science works. Scientists never get definite answers (and simple answers are usually wrong). We get "what works now, with the information and measurement tools we have available, with the understanding that we could be wrong because there's stuff out there we can't measure or don't know how to measure or don't even know that we should be measuring yet." There are no measurement tools that can reliably measure, for example, the existence of ghosts. That doesn't mean that ghosts don't exist. That just means that as a scientist, I have to assume that ghosts don't exist until I can show evidence that they do, evidence that stands up to repeated testing by other people as well as me. That's what science is.

Hard-and-fast, absolute answers aren't available from scientific investigation. Working answers are. To be a scientist, you must get comfortable with never being completely sure that you're right about something and being willing to keep your mind open to other possible answers, while at the same time operating on the assumption that the answers you've gotten are good enough to work with and within until that time.

One of the main issues with nutrition and public health in the last forty to sixty years is precisely that people have been clinging to an unsupported dogma about food and what's good for us and what's not, without any evidence and with minimal testing (because when tested, current CW nutrition does not stand up to evidence in any way, shape, or form). Now, is the PB 100% right? Maybe. It's likely, since so many people have had such wonderful success on it. But is it 100% certain? No, because nothing ever is.

[hw1178]

I grew up LDS and I currently live in SLC. While I'm no longer a practicing member of any religion, I certainly understand the Mormon culture. Two years ago I was diagnosed with celiac disease and that was that as far as wheat, Rye, and barley were concerned. I simply did not have a choice other than give them up. After my diagnosis, several of my family members were also tested and, as it turned out, celiac disease was running wild in my family. Most of my family is still very active in the LDS church and they are all gluten free and several of them are turning toward this lifestyle as it just seems to make them feel better and look better. My parents, who are not celiac but gluten intolerant, cheat once per week with the sacrament. Other than that, they are totally gluten free. There is nothing in the LDS faith that requires you to eat grain. It may be part of the community and the culture, but as far as the faith goes, you are free and clear to make your own choice and treat your body like a temple instead of like a garbage dump.

[sgalley2]

hw1178: I appreciate you (and all of the others, too!) taking the time to share your insight and perspective--thank you very much.

[CoachSandee]

you are free and clear to make your own choice and treat your body like a temple instead of like a garbage dump.

I love this! I think more people should think this way.

[Melodiemomma]

I am also LDS and was wondering the same thing you were! I got out my scrips and read those same versus. in there it does also say that wheat is meant for times of famine...I kinda took that as grains are good for you, but mainly meant for times of famine. I could be way off on this, but I had been praying to know what I could do to improve my health, and I came across MDA. Everything seems to make sense to me in the primal blueprint as far as diet goes (obviously not the evolution side) I think this could definitely be something to pray about for you and me both...

[ilikesubtitles]

I am also LDS and was wondering the same thing you were! I got out my scrips and read those same versus. in there it does also say that wheat is meant for times of famine...I kinda took that as grains are good for you, but mainly meant for times of famine. I could be way off on this, but I had been praying to know what I could do to improve my health, and I came across MDA. Everything seems to make sense to me in the primal blueprint as far as diet goes (obviously not the evolution side) I think this could definitely be something to pray about for you and me both...

One thing to keep in mind is that the Bible is a dated document. I am not a Christian, or of any religion, and have nothing against any denomination. But the Bible was written less than 2,000 years ago, written in environments (Greece, the Middle East, etc.) that had been practicing agriculture for thousands of years. The first wheat species were domesticated in the Middle East and then spread across Eurasia from there. (Read "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond for more info.) Wheat has a very long history in Eurasia. For that reason, it makes sense that wheat would be an important part of a diet in which the vast majority of people had little to eat in the first place. Consider it: wheat is easy to grow (it grows in many climates, including climates with little water such as the Mediterranean and more desert-like areas of the Middle East), it is easy to store, and thus was plentiful. And I would think that in times of famine, little else was to be had. Vegetables and fruits can rarely be stored that long, and livestock is subject to all kinds of risks--disease, theft, etc.

But the Bible is a dated, and to some extent, a political document. Just ten years ago the medical establishment thought that celiac disease and gluten intolerance were extremely rare. But now we know it affects a huuuuge portion of the population. If you are a Christian, and if Jesus really was as cool a dude as it sounds like he was, I doubt he'd be insulted by your refusal to eat something you know will harm your body. But if you choose to partake in a tradition that is important to you, then by all means do it. Just don't let the guilt take over. Make sure YOU want to do it, not someone else!

[Kay Exeye]

But the Bible is a dated, and to some extent, a political document.

while this may be true for your world view not everyone shares that view.

[WeirdSteve]

From the Doctrine and Covenants (one of the LDS scriptures, straight from lds.org):

D&C 89:

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

I assume this includes vegetables. So, +1 so far.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

Some confusing wording there, but looks like you better get your meat in before the snow melts.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

So all grain is good. It is the staff of life, in fact. Yet it is only to be used during famines. Very confusing. No wonder I left the church.