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Thread: The Bedrock Journal - ( Pebbles67) page 604

  1. #6031
    demuralist's Avatar
    demuralist is offline Senior Member
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    not as easily as taking it out of a vending machine though.

    Paula, you will only feel worse, physically and mentally. Can't you get a nice salad from the cafeteria?

    So, here is a post from a doc about fasting, INR and Warfarin (Coumadin), from the 5:2 forum that I frequent.....



    "Re: Warfarin

    I think fasting whilst taking warfarin should be approached with caution. I think there are a number of things to consider before embarking on a fasting regime
    1. How stable is your INR and warfarin dosage? Some people have very stable INR and their warfarin dose changes very rarely other people however struggle to be stabilised and have frequent changes in warfarin doses. If your INR is unstable particularly if it fluctuates widely then your risk of blood clots and/or bleeding is higher and you should be very careful fasting which might cause additional swings in INR.
    2. Why are you taking the warfarin? In some conditions it is very important to maintain anti coagulation within tight limits such as people who have metal heart valve replacements where a loss of anti coagulation even for a short period of time can be catastrophic. Again in these cases fasting on warfarin should be approached very carefully.
    3. Your diet. warfarin works by inhibiting a number of blood clotting protein which are dependant on vitamin K for their action. Vit K will counteract the action of warfarin and is given in emergencies to reverse the effect of warfarin if a patient on warfarin starts to bleed uncontrollably (during surgery, after injury or spontaneously if the INR has become uncontrolled). Vit k is found in some foods so if your diet is high in foods containing vitamin k you will need more warfarin for the same effect compared to someone with a diet low in vitamin k. By fasting the vitamin k usually found in the diet is lost and so with the same dose of warfarin the anticoagulant effect will be greater and the INR will rise. However the 5:2 is not a complete fast so some vit k will be taken in within the food allowed on fast days. Vit k is largely found in leafy green vegetables and a few other foodstuffs (this is a good summary of the amount of vit k in foods Services | University of Michigan Cardiovascular Center | University of Michigan Health System ... indiet.pdf. So before you fast it is worth making some judgement of the amount of vit k you have in your normal daily diet and try to get a similar amount on your fast days perhaps by altering the types of food you eat on a fast day (eg increasing the amount of green leafy veg if you usually eat foods with moderate/high vit k content in your normal diet)

    I would recommend that anyone on warfarin who starts any dietary modification has more frequent INR checks initially to see what effect the changes have on their anticoagulation. The ideal is a frequent check with a calibrated home monitor but not many patients currently have their own INR monitors so these checks will have to be with the GP or anticoagulant service.
    I hope this is of help, remember also that if you loose a significant amount of weight then the warfarin dose often needs changing anyway as there is less of you to anticoagulate!"

  2. #6032
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    Thanks Chris! Great information.

    This is what I meant about my being too cavalier about taking coumadin and my clotting disorder. I think my INR went high because I did a total fast for 36 hrs just 2 days before I went to my Doctor, then started amoxicillin, which also messes with coumadin.

    I will have to give up total fasts in exchange for a Down Day type of fasting where I eat dinner with a salad in the evening. I take my coumadin after dinner.

    So it looks as if I will be moving to the 5:2 program as well. : )

  3. #6033
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    I haven't had a pop tart in years - but used to LOVE the cinnamon ones or the chocolate ones. Now I think they would be way to sweet. The other day I ate a bite sized Peppermint Patty and about spit it back out - the sweetness was overwhelming!!! That means I'm losing my sweet tooth!
    Read post #2626
    my motivation

    Things I choose to let go:

    All grains - including rice
    Refined sugars
    Legumes - including peanut butter
    Nuts and nut butters
    Alcohol and soda
    Chocolate
    Acidic foods, such as pineapple and tomato
    Coffee and tea
    Eggs
    Curry
    White potato
    Dairy - including butter

    I'm choosing to do this......... I don't HAVE to.

    I'm doing this because I'm worth it - because I'm worthy - because I love myself.

  4. #6034
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    Pebbles67 is online now Senior Member
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    I have not yet experienced this "too sweet" problem of which you speak...

  5. #6035
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    me either!

    Paula, glad to have the company. Now we are just waiting on Ruth!

    Here is the way I see it. If you continue to eat the way you do (when not binging) you lose a bit or maintain over the course of a few weeks. So if you took 2 days a week where you cut back, even if only to 50% if you need those calories to keep your INR right, then you will still be creating a deficit which will create a loss over time. And having a pretty decent deficit from those 2 days you could allow a treat during that week and still be able to stay on course for losing. And that be just what you need to be able to stop the binging? And that is the kind of thing that is sustainable, I think, and likely very much like cavemen who likely did not have a constant source of food.

  6. #6036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pebbles67 View Post
    I have not yet experienced this "too sweet" problem of which you speak...
    me either. That said, "Just say no to crappy snack pastries"

  7. #6037
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    ^^+1 I think you should institute the rule I use for my kids, if you want it you have to make it. I have used that since they could reach the counter with a stool. Even if it is less than desirable ingredients, you know what they all are, and there are no mystery ingredients, plus it does taste better.

    p.s. If you must... paleo/primal dessert recipes - use sparingly
    Last edited by demuralist; 05-15-2013 at 01:51 PM. Reason: add p.s.

  8. #6038
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    whoohoo we got ourselves another wagon!! LOL
    Karin


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    What am I doing? Depends on the day.

  9. #6039
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    My plan for the 5:2 is to stay completely Primal with the five days being 2000+ calories with 75-100g carb. The 2 down days would have one 500 cal meal of protein fat and a green salad, keto style.

    If I end up having some binges on non primal stuff then so be it. It should still fit in.

  10. #6040
    demuralist's Avatar
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    Yep as long as you can keep the vit k consistent and hold the occasional binge to your non fast days. For me allowing 1 day where i dont control what i eat has been very good. I dont always use the day, but allowing it gives a lot of freedom.

    Also, many people on the 5:2 forum go over on their fast days even as high as 700 and still lose, slower but lose.
    Chris
    "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
    Unknown

    My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

    My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

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