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Thread: Foundation of Mark's pyramid is vegetables and fruit? page

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    it1958's Avatar
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    Foundation of Mark's pyramid is vegetables and fruit?

    I've got Mark's book on order but continue to read and learn. Just found his food pyramid and am surprised to see vegetables and fruits at the base and not meat (or even fat!).

    For the meat layer, Mark says it is to be the bulk of calories.

    is this explained somewhere and I've just not found it yet?

    I just checked one of my Fitday entries and my protein intake is about 16% of calories and fat intake is ~80%. Carbs are about 3%... But the bulk of my calories comes from fat (egg yolks, coconut oil, butter).

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    peril's Avatar
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    The food pyramid is in terms of volume, not calories. Vegetables are very low in calories so need a large volume to get the required nutrients

    BTW, butter is dairy
    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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    it1958's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peril View Post
    The food pyramid is in terms of volume, not calories. Vegetables are very low in calories so need a large volume to get the required nutrients
    OK. That makes more sense, tho I still have the question on meat being the 'bulk of calories'...

    BTW, butter is dairy
    yes, of course butter is dairy; it's made from cream. but because of it's high fat content, it has very little lactose, which is why most dairy needs to be limited. I follow Bee Wilder's candida program which eliminates all dairy, but butter is allowed.

    I've read on this forum people wondering about fermented drinks and in doing my search on Bee's site for her stance on butter, I found this article on Yogurt and Kefir:

    http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/cfd21.php

    Besides addressing the fermented drinks, she says this about butter:

    "The higher the butterfat content in dairy, the lower the lactose content, therefore butter contains the least amount of lactose. "

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    You're supposed to be eating fatty, untrimmed meat, so you'll get lots of fat from the meat category.

    The whole dairy thing is very individual. I myself get horrible gut aches from milk and ice-cream, but I can handle small portions of cheese, and I have no problem whatsoever with yogurt and sour cream. I'm not really sure how butter affects me, because I'm such a coconut oil lover that I use that in everything. But I have had food prepared by other people with some butter in it and it doesn't seem to have any effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by it1958 View Post
    OK. That makes more sense, tho I still have the question on meat being the 'bulk of calories'...
    What's the question?
    Getting down to basics, the PB consists of eating plants and animals. A handful of generic plant is high bulk, low calorie. A handful of animal is a dense energy source. So you could have 3 handfuls of plant and one of animal on your plate - and by looking at it you'd say it was mainly plant. But if you broke down the nutrient and calorie content, those 3 handfuls of plant make sod-all contribution.


    Oooor I've missed something entirely and now sound extremely patronising - not my intention!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernMonkeyGirl View Post
    What's the question?
    Getting down to basics, the PB consists of eating plants and animals. A handful of generic plant is high bulk, low calorie. A handful of animal is a dense energy source. So you could have 3 handfuls of plant and one of animal on your plate - and by looking at it you'd say it was mainly plant. But if you broke down the nutrient and calorie content, those 3 handfuls of plant make sod-all contribution.


    Oooor I've missed something entirely and now sound extremely patronising - not my intention!
    Makes sense to me; in my totally objective opinion.

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    Agree w/ pps--your plate can be covered in veggies (3/4 of the plate) and have a serving of meat on it (1/4 of the plate) along w/ some fat on the veg and that naturally found in the meat. The majority of your *calories* will still be coming from the meat, even if your plate is covered in veg. You can get ratios of 70% fat, 20% protein and 10% carb (etc) eating in this manner.

    Bottom line though--use the program as works best *for you*. Some folks seem to have digestive difficulties eating so many veg, esp raw. But the PB as written DOES include LOTS of produce, mostly veg.

    Also, here is Mark's post on dairy: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/ He mentions it is in "primal limbo". I believe many folks who are primal do include butter without noticable ill effects. I think its a very individual thing and the only person who can make the decision of whether or not dairy works for you is yourself. I def. think of butter as being a 'primal' food a-ok for those who tolerate it. (Not paleo, but yes primal...)
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    PB is what you make of it. It's not a religion and Mark isn't a demi-god, nor does he set him self up as one.

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    Yes, Primal is a produce-based diet. I really like FairyRae's visual of 3/4 of the plate being vegetables and 1/4 being fatty meat. Many of us who are former vegetarians are actually eating more produce now than we ever did as vegetarians.

    Also agree with her comments on dairy. I am particularly sensitive to the stuff, more so than the average bear, and even I can handle butter without it starting trouble. But I highly recommend pastured butter. It even looks different.

    See the dairy hierarchy on page 129.
    "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -- Hippocrates

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    it1958's Avatar
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    OK! Thank you All! I guess I had not caught that (it's been a while since I've read Mark's stuff, tho i have his free e-books, so I've forgotten!). Funny to think that former vegetarians are eating more veggies on Mark's prgm than before!

    I am following Bee Wilder's Candida pgm which calls for no: sugar, starch, grains, fruit, or dairy (which is why the 'butter is dairy' comment came up).

    Bee recommends we have 5.5 Tbsp coconut oil/day. Butter is optional but encouraged, and many have found that they can tolerate butter when other dairy bothers them. Meat is to be "lightly cooked", more raw than well-done. But veggies are to be well-cooked to break down their cell walls (which explains to me why my poor gut was in turmoil when I tried going vegetarian 2 yrs ago and i was eating raw!).

    I don't have a problem with consuming just meat and fat, tho; saves time! But i do try to have some veggies every day; they're just way less than 3/4 of my plate...

    anyway, i'm rambling, but appreciate the heads-up on the pyramid: that it is based on volume, not calories. Makes sense.
    I came here to get some food ideas.

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