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  1. #1
    Clint W's Avatar
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    Big Toe Pain

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    Anyone else find they get pain in their big toes on this program? I'm fully Primal, but had been off of it for a couple of months. When I was serious about this before I had the same toe pain. Now, after several weeks back on it, it's back.

    I'm trying to figure out if it's the grass fed beef or just a phenomenon of massive fat loss or being in ketosis or what.

    Any wisdom or help would be appreciated. I really don't think it's gout.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Digby's Avatar
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    This sounds like gout, which comes from a build up of uric acid in joints, often the big toe. Wine and beer often trigger this. I have used tart cherry juice (and it is tart!), or tart cherry supplements (i get mine at Swanson online). Clears it up quickly. Ketosis can cause it in a few people for a short while.
    This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

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    Clint W's Avatar
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    Thanks Digby. I had my blood tested and my uric acid levels were normal, so maybe it does have to do with the ketosis. I've been keeping my carbs REALLY low for the past couple of weeks. However, my cheat thing is beer, so...
    Maybe I'm in denial.

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    I was wondering the same thing because I have this as well. I don't think it's gout (though I know it's an option), I'm thinking it's damage to the big toe joint from years of wearing super high heels. I'm going to talk to the doc about it at my next visit in Jan/Feb.

    It's tough though because I can't do lunges properly and have even had some difficulty doing step ups (onto a step and back down) because coming back down on the ball of my foot and rolling through really hurts. The last time I actually had to stop before I'd finished because the Big Toe joint was red and inflamed.
    "Boy I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals" - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

  5. #5
    Digby's Avatar
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    Tests usually just look at ranges, and you might be more sensitive to the uric acid; it's the same for me. Plus, some people seem to feel these things quicker than others.
    This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Any given day you are surrounded by 10,000 idiots.
    Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

  6. #6
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Hey Clint,
    Have you tried using Ketostix (available OTC at any pharmacy) to see if you really are in ketosis (or maybe need to limit the brews)? I'm really careful about checking mine because I'm trying to control my epilepsy with less med dependency.

    Robin

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    Even if uric acid levels are normal, you are describing classic gout. Lab norms aren't indicators of health or indicators of absence of disease but are simply reflections of the levels of 'x' of a 1000 person sample, plus two standard deviations higher and lower than the mean. If you're having symptoms of gout (and what you describe is just that), ignore the lab results and treat accordingly.

    •Dehydration is a trigger...ketosis triggers dehydration by increasing the speed at which the kidney's function (over the short term).
    •Drink slightly more water
    •Use Black Cherry Fruit Extract (I'm not sure how much...trying to work on this for my dad right now)
    •decrease (maybe temporarily, maybe permanently) consumption of sardines, shellfish, organ meats...and no beer
    •increase vegetable consumption
    •consider adding a small amount of starch - potato/sweet potato if you can tolerate it and it doesn't trigger craving/binging

    Best of luck.

    K



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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I'm trying to control my epilepsy with less med dependency.

    Robin
    This is probably info you probably have already read but I'll post just in case

    I love Emily Deans posts (evolutionarypsychiatry blog) on Epilepsy and ketosis/primal/paleo:
    http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogsp...rch?q=epilepsy



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  9. #9
    Sam Cree's Avatar
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    Clint W, it is probably gout. I've had it for some years, even before going primal, and I believe the PB can trigger an attack in those of us prone to it. There is enough chatter on this forum about it to make it hard to ignore, for one thing.

    It's possible to get negative lab results on uric acid while having gout, so that's not always a good indicator.

    Gout is thought to be triggered by dehydration, excess protein intake and excess fructose intake, at least, all of which I believe can be associated with the PB. For instance, to help myself get over cutting out sugar, when I went primal, I increased my consumption of fruit. The extra fructose I got that way may well have been my personal trigger for the rather severe gout attack I underwent about one month into the PB. Of course, I was probably also replacing some of the starches I'd cut out with more protein. I've since cut out most of the fruit (my teeth now have less plaque!) and added rice and potatoes back into my diet. I haven't gained any weight and so far haven't had any more gout.

    It's something to think about.

  10. #10
    Clint W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cillakat View Post
    Even if uric acid levels are normal, you are describing classic gout. Lab norms aren't indicators of health or indicators of absence of disease but are simply reflections of the levels of 'x' of a 1000 person sample, plus two standard deviations higher and lower than the mean. If you're having symptoms of gout (and what you describe is just that), ignore the lab results and treat accordingly.

    •Dehydration is a trigger...ketosis triggers dehydration by increasing the speed at which the kidney's function (over the short term).
    •Drink slightly more water
    •Use Black Cherry Fruit Extract (I'm not sure how much...trying to work on this for my dad right now)
    •decrease (maybe temporarily, maybe permanently) consumption of sardines, shellfish, organ meats...and no beer
    •increase vegetable consumption
    •consider adding a small amount of starch - potato/sweet potato if you can tolerate it and it doesn't trigger craving/binging

    Best of luck.

    K
    Thanks Cillakat. I guess I might be in denial, but I keep hearing about the cherry extract. I'm going to get some this week. I appreciate the input.
    Still, it's hard for me to swallow that this lifestyle (which I'm NAILING) is making me hurt.

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