I understand your advice. I would like to motivate my viewpoint here. I think that basically whatever your diet or lifestyle is , appetite regulation is a crucial aspect.
However you are correct. It occurs pretty naturally when you're eating the right things. Do you agree, Batty?
HANDS OFF MY BACON :: my primal journal
Welcome to the forum!!
If you are trying to give up dairy then the protein shakes need to go. Also give up with the soy milk. Just try your tea and coffee black, after a few days you may start to prefer them this way. Oh heck, just have a bit of cream in your tea/coffee.... it won't kill you!
I think if you started to eat a bit more protein from meat/eggs your muscles would start to grow a bit and the urge to binge would fade as you would feel fuller for longer.
Also why don't you eat fruit?
Last edited by mozzy10; 11-24-2010 at 02:34 AM.
Can't believe i'm actually advising someone..lol (Not been PB that long myself) In my newfound experience:
How you are approaching PB sounds exactly how i did. Just let me add ,i abandand the scales. Since that point just focused on good food & my personal goals.
At the start it was dropping excess fat as fast as possible. Needless to say it just wasn't happening,until i relaxed with the scales both bathroom & kitchen .Ate good meat ,lots of eggs,coconut products ,oil ,milk & raw ,plus some nutrient low carb veg & lots of berries.I do have small amount of dairy on occasions.
Just doing this ,is transforming my body weekly.My clothes are my scale & comments from my work colleagues. All good.
All i can do is suggest as others,greentea with lemon is good ,instead of coffee & normal tea. I'm hooked now (thats from a woman who couldn't even make a cup of tea because of the dislike to the smell) alot of fruit teas are nice too ,all caffeine free. Good luck!
Hunger is the way your body manifests its cellular need for energy at a psychological level. This is exactly analogous to thirst, which is how a cellular need for hydration manifests at a psychological level. When you get thirsty, I assume that you drink, which is what any rational being would do. When you get hungry, you should probably eat.
If shortly after a meal (energy input) you find that you are hungry, then you need to answer the question: why is it that the cells of my body did not receive the energy that they require? The answers to that question will roughly break down into two categories:
- You ate an insufficient amount.
- You ate the wrong things.
It should be pretty obvious to you when you eat a bird sized meal, so I'll focus on #2, you ate the wrong things.
The Wrong Things To Eat
From the perspective of fat loss, the wrong things to eat are those that prompt the body to store incoming energy for future use rather than to make it available for current consumption. Control over your body's processes occurs via neurological and endocrine (hormonal) systems. Neurological control is specific, whereas hormones effect systemic control. Of the hormones in the body, the list of hormones that mobilize adipose fat to make it available as energy for cells is quite long, so long, in fact, that it would be safe to say that the default state for your body to be in is one of mobilizing fat from adipose tissues. In contrast, the list of hormones that cause your adipose tissues to decrease their release of free fatty acids into the bloodstream is quite exclusive, consisting of a single hormone : insulin. It follows from this that the wrong things to eat are those things that are highly insulinogenic, producing a large insulin response when ingested.
If you inadvertently eat a highly insulinogenic meal, you will know it in short order, because you will get hungry relatively soon after your meal. In the long term, your adipose tissue will not reduce, because your hormonal environment is promoting retention of fat. Hunger is a very important message that your body sends to you. Listen to it.
From your outline of what you have been eating, one thing stands out: whey protein shakes. The following quote is from a doctoral thesis on the insulinogenic effects of milk: "Dairy proteins, in particular the whey protein fraction, were found to be potent insulin secretagogues in healthy subjects." In case you find the scientific jargon impenetrable, "potent insulin secretagogues" = "wrong thing to eat". Whey protein is popular among the bodybuilding crowd because it is quickly assimilated. The reason it is quickly assimilated is precisely because it spikes insulin. Spiking insulin means shutting down the release of free fatty acids from adipose tissue.
I should point out that counting calories is largely meaningless since it completely ignores the insulinogenicity of the diet. Eating 1500 calories of mashed potatoes is not the same as eating 1500 calories of whey protein which is not the same as eating 1500 calories of coconut oil.
Having said all that, there is one way that you can get away with a less than ideal diet from the perspective of insulinogenicity - intermittent fasting. You cannot have insulin spikes if you are not eating. If, as you say, you find that your fat loss progress has stalled, you might consider increasing the interval between your meals. One popular approach to this is to limit your eating to the hours between 5PM - 10PM. During your eating window, try to eat cleanly, but don't obsess about it. If you were to do this, you would be effectively fasting 19 hours a day, or, in other words, you would have roughly 13 - 14 hours a day that you would be burning fat instead of storing it ( this is assuming that you eat a meal towards the end of the window which will take a few hours to work its way through your system ). Contrast this with the "three square meals a day" approach which has you eating roughly every 5 hours, and spiking insulin with each meal, effectively reducing you to only burning fat during the night, when you are asleep.
Should you decide to go down this road, the practical way to approach it is to attempt to delay your first meal, literally the meal that breaks your fast, by an hour every few days ( say 3 or 4 ). Over the span of 5 - 6 weeks, you would be roughly eating your break fast meal 10 hours later than usual. If you normally eat your first meal at 7:00 AM, this would now have you eating at 5:00 PM. At this point, you would continue eating within this window pretty much indefinitely. Keep it up for 30 days, see how your body responds, and adjust accordingly.
The devil, as they say, is in the details, but I've given you the overall gist. I'm a firm believer that the name of the game is regulation of insulin, and one of the best ways to do that is through intermittent fasting.
I have to say I appreciate your explanation about hunger. Thanks for sharing, PK.
By the way, PK, would you have any "hormonal" explanation regarding the sensation of, you know, "being hungry, or feeling like eating something sweet" ?
My mother knows a bit about health and lifestyle, and knows about the PB. However, she's wondering why at times when she feels stressed she wants to get some sweeties (dark chocolate, honey, sometimes almonds, ...). Are you technically hungry when your nervous tension falls abruptly ?
Last edited by Furan; 11-24-2010 at 04:46 PM. Reason: additional question
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Be hardcore, drink water
Effectively, then, when you crave chocolate, you may be self medicating by administering an anti-depressant. Cravings generally reflect an underlying physiological need, and you may also be craving chocolate due to a magnesium deficiency:
Chocolate may be used by some as a form of self-medication for dietary deficiencies (eg, magnesium) or to balance low levels of neurotransmitters involved in the regulation of mood, food intake, and compulsive behaviors (eg, serotonin and dopamine). Chocolate cravings are often episodic and fluctuate with hormonal changes just before and during the menses, which suggests a hormonal link and confirms the assumed gender-specific nature of chocolate cravings. Chocolate contains several biologically active constituents (methylxanthines, biogenic amines, and cannabinoid-like fatty acids), all of which potentially cause abnormal behaviors and psychological sensations that parallel those of other addictive substances.
I'm not really clear on the underlying mechanisms that associate cravings with biological deficiencies, but there is definitely a relationship there. Sorry to be a bit vague here, but I cannot find the studies just now, but there have been studies performed where rats were made surgically deficient in an essential nutrient by removing organ(s) responsible for metabolizing the nutrient. When these rats were presented with feed enriched with the nutrient and non-enriched food, all of the rats that had been operated on ate only the enriched feed. By doing so all of these rats lived a normal rat life span.
Rats that have not undergone the surgery will preferentially eat the non-enriched food when given the same choice. The inference from these studies is that somehow, the underlying deficiency manifests as changes in the way the rats perceive the food, ie in how the food tastes to the rats, and it is likely that the deficiency induces the equivalent of a rat "craving" foods high in the deficient nutrient.
If I can find the original studies, I'll post them here.
Hm... 5'6" - sorry, 5'6.5 - and something under 9 1/2 stone. Are you really overweight?
Thank you, PK:-)
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Be hardcore, drink water
No idea what I weigh these days. My scales are giving me a right old giggle - I was nearly 10st nekkid this morning! Now, I know I gain a bit when Auntie Flo's due a visit - but NOT nearly 1.5st!
I don't care anymore. I'm not overweight, my clothes fit. I don't look too bad (losing 12 stone doing silly things like MRP diets does things to a body - like leaving me with yards and yards of loose skin that doesn't appear to be going anywhere in hurry...). This is why I think I'm fat - it's not fat, it's flabby skin. That pic (if anyone saw it, black trews blue top) was me at around 15 stone - I'd already lost about 5st by then.
Well, my body doesn't look too bad - shame I can do bugger all about the face. I thought that, when I gave up the soy, the hair would lessen (it did for a bit, now it's back stronger, thicker and coarser than before. I just wish I knew why...). How can I feel good about myself when I look ugly...?
La tristesse durera toujours...