Saoirse's Primal Journal page 219

[Saoirse]

Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by dominance. A certain trainer who I won't name relies on establishing dominance/being the "alpha" over dogs, but in doing so, is only getting them to respond out of fear and when a dog is responding out of fear, well, they can be unpredictable. Things like rolling a dog onto their back or forcing them into positions they wouldn't normally assume (in order to assert your own dominance) is not a good way to get them to learn. But it sounds like you mean it in an entirely different way than I originally interpreted it

i think trying to exert dominance over a pit bull sounds like a losing battle. pretty sure he's stronger than i am, and more dangerous. but i suppose that's what you were referring to.

And yes, they're very much like toddlers There were many frustrating, tear-my-hair out moments with both of them, but now they're pretty cool dogs. I've worked on clicker training with one (and using capture words, like "yes"), and the other is deaf, so he gets sign language. Word of caution: despite their size, they're pretty sure they are lap dogs.

this makes me smile.

Schmelly says thank you for adopting

this too.

[Danielfire]

cute!

[Finnegans Wake]

I agree with the idea of redirecting energy and attention, not just with pits. But IMO the idea of dominance should never, ever be coupled with fear. It should be because the pup wants to please you, get your praise, know he's doing a good job. I'm lucky to have a wonderful dog, and he knows I'm alpha, but it's not like I have to keep asserting my fearful presence: when I say leave it, he leaves it, and then he gets his praise or treat.

Neighbor has rescue pits, love 'em all. Their energy and exuberance can be like trying to put 10 ounces of water into an 8 ounce cup, ya know? We sometimes walk them or take care of them if she's away, and the big boy has a man-crush on me. But again, he's pretty good with me because he sees me as alpha, very few problems.

Another neighbor has a pretty young female pit. Still jumps up a lot. Caught me by surprise the other day and whonked my right on the chin with that cinderblock skull of hers, but luckily I can take a punch.

Since we became dog people, I'm respectful of pits, cautious with ones I don't know, but not afraid of them. The other year there was one loose in the neighborhood I didn't know and thought nothing of going after it with a leash - she had a collar on, and luckily I got her and returned her and another dog that was loose to the rightful owner. Some folks would see a pit and just stay indoors.

[Saoirse]

I agree with the idea of redirecting energy and attention, not just with pits. But IMO the idea of dominance should never, ever be coupled with fear. It should be because the pup wants to please you, get your praise, know he's doing a good job. I'm lucky to have a wonderful dog, and he knows I'm alpha, but it's not like I have to keep asserting my fearful presence: when I say leave it, he leaves it, and then he gets his praise or treat.

that seems pretty ideal, but i have to wonder how that was established, and if your size and deep voice made it easier to establish dominance, or if there were other behaviors and body language you exhibit which help in that regard. (wondering so i can emulate them, fyi)

love your pit stories. most of my friends are either oddly silent or somewhat fearful. i think when they meet him, they'll get past their prejudice.

poor guy was castrated today. we've had a high of 104, and instructions to give no food or water until tomorrow morning, and no walks or play for 7-10 days. well, he's still going to get some walks. he's just way too curious to sit at home all day. and i've given him a tiny bit of water, twice. we're talking about 1/4 c each time. it's just too hot to go without water. i was able to get him to heel during most of our walk (onleash) around the back yard. and not by force either, just by asserting that we weren't moving forward until obeyed. poor guy is so bored right now.

[magicmerl]

that seems pretty ideal, but i have to wonder how that was established, and if your size and deep voice made it easier to establish dominance, or if there were other behaviors and body language you exhibit which help in that regard. (wondering so i can emulate them, fyi)

I think that part of it is that 'guy' body language is similar to dog body language (except for the crotch sniffing that is ). Just think of 'male bonding' (chest bumps etc) and extrapolate out to canines. Getting some rough pats/whacks on the shoulders and chest while being told that he's a good dog seems like most dog's idea of heaven (caveat: not little little dogs, but you don't have one of those).

Whereas girls/women seem to have been socialised into thinking that's not ladylike. Maybe?

[bloodorchid]

'alpha dog' is just attitude, size and bearing have no... bearing on it

[magicmerl]

Well, strength does matter a little. My wife is quite thin, and when my dad's labrador runs up to greet me (cause OMG, I've just made her day by turning up and BEING ME), she sometimes circles me (running between us), which means my wife gets physically shunted out of the way. My wife understandably gets a little shitty about that. Although, I can see the funny side.. .

[bloodorchid]

yeah my sister's pit puppy can body check my shins out of my flesh on accident sometimes and i'm 5'10. but it's cause he's happy and playing and really stout, not because be thinks he's the boss of me

tell your wife to stop being a pushover

also here's this from The Bay (tm) (c)

http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?s=pit+bull

[Saoirse]

I think that part of it is that 'guy' body language is similar to dog body language (except for the crotch sniffing that is ). Just think of 'male bonding' (chest bumps etc) and extrapolate out to canines. Getting some rough pats/whacks on the shoulders and chest while being told that he's a good dog seems like most dog's idea of heaven (caveat: not little little dogs, but you don't have one of those).

Whereas girls/women seem to have been socialised into thinking that's not ladylike. Maybe?

hmm...maybe. i'm not worried about being ladylike really. maybe a little subconscious thing? growing up, my dad had a big golden retriever who could be an oaf. i enjoyed being able to handle a dog roughly, playfully. i wasn't petting/patting/rubbing hard enough unless i was physically moving him. i honestly think it has more to do with a deeper voice and taller stature. plus his trainers were all male, and even stated to me that i'm going to have to be extra firm with him, because i'm female, to train him. just a few more hours and then i can feed him! poor guy has watched me grill and eat a t-bone, and he hasn't eaten since yesterday.

[justyouraveragecavemen]

poor guy was castrated today. we've had a high of 104, and instructions to give no food or water until tomorrow morning, and no walks or play for 7-10 days. well, he's still going to get some walks. he's just way too curious to sit at home all day. and i've given him a tiny bit of water, twice. we're talking about 1/4 c each time. it's just too hot to go without water. i was able to get him to heel during most of our walk (onleash) around the back yard. and not by force either, just by asserting that we weren't moving forward until obeyed. poor guy is so bored right now.

Is he bored or just not thinking about humping the neighbor's collie? I'd look quite bored too if you took my thoughts of sex away.
And you've read all about how to care for him from books and online sites but disregarded the vet looking at you and saying "no water, no walks, no play, etc."...come on now, the vet didn't tell you that for shits and giggles.