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Thread: Saoirse's Primal Journal page 218

  1. #2171
    Mud Flinger's Avatar
    Mud Flinger is offline Senior Member
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    The problem with the internet is that whatever you are looking for, you will find it - the good and the bad. Any position can be supported this way. All you can do is your best to train your new family member as well as the rest of your family. While everyone worries about what a dog might do, have you noticed the damage a teen can do? It kinda helps put stuff into perspective. Just like you would with your kids, watch for worrysome (sp?) behavoirs and correct them early. You're a good Mom - you know what to do

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    We had a boxer bulldog and 2 German shepherds while I was growing up at my folks house, those breeds are only as mean as you make them. The pits only make me nervous thinking about what their parents disposition was, and since you got him from the pound you don't know...I'd just watch him and the first time he puffs up on you or the kids send him back to the pound.
    If I just said LOL, I lied. Do or do not. There is no try.

  3. #2173
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    Gotcha with the name. How's Fluffy? The best part about the horse was that his name was also his descriptor. He loved people.

    Booter is right about the bloodlines. Some are really bred for fighting. But, honestly, some of my best dog experiances have been with the bully breeds- my worst with labs. If you weren't smarter than the dog, I could see him maybe being a problem, but I don't see that as a problem for you Just make sure he's really, really well socialized.
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    Here's my 2 cents:
    Labs are bred for hunting, so being penned up in your backyard doesn't give them what they need to be themselves.
    Bulldogs, shepherds, rottweilers, etc. were bred for protecting/fighting and you can usually make them what you want them to be.
    My worst experiences have come from blue heelers, and that's only because they were protecting their livestock (aka the human kids). They don't mess around.
    You've got to respect a big dog's space, too. My niece ran into their neighbors house unannounced, just to visit which was cool with the neighbors but surprised the dog. She got bit on the face, luckily, the dog caught itself before it did much more than put a couple scratches on her cheek. Make the dog respect you, then respect it back.
    Well, that was a penny and a half, you can keep the change.
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  5. #2175
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    Saoirse is online now Senior Member
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    maybe i'll hang some "beware of dog" signs on the yard. i've been reading about dog behavior and apparently i'm doing it all wrong. i'm down with being the alpha and seeing a dog as a dog (rather than as a creature with human emotions), but i thought that meant correcting every bad behavior. turns out, our dog just doesn't see me as alpha yet. i need to quit talking and learn dog body language, which is good, because i prefer to communicate via body language anyway. it's much more intuitive. today was our last walk before the surgery, and then i pick him up from the vet tomorrow.

    oh, also, pits need "mental challenges." it's not a challenge like humans like challenges, but rather things that i would consider frustrating. like putting a treat on the floor and telling the dog he can't have it for a while, then letting him have it.
    Last edited by Saoirse; 08-28-2012 at 12:19 PM.

  6. #2176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    maybe i'll hang some "beware of dog" signs on the yard. i've been reading about dog behavior and apparently i'm doing it all wrong. i'm down with being the alpha and seeing a dog as a dog (rather than as a creature with human emotions), but i thought that meant correcting every bad behavior. turns out, our dog just doesn't see me as alpha yet. i need to quit talking and learn dog body language, which is good, because i prefer to communicate via body language anyway. it's much more intuitive. today was our last walk before the surgery, and then i pick him up from the vet tomorrow.

    oh, also, pits need "mental challenges." it's not a challenge like humans like challenges, but rather things that i would consider frustrating. like putting a treat on the floor and telling the dog he can't have it for a while, then letting him have it.
    /lurking.
    1. Cute dog is cute! I have two bullies, and they've been a riot.
    2. The whole "alpha" thing with dogs is not entirely accurate and is not safe to attempt with larger dogs (not that it's good with smaller dogs, but they are tinier of mouth). Instead of trying to correct every bad behavior; redirect, redirect, and redirect some more (so if he's chewing on something naughty, trade with something that's okay; or if he's tugging on something and won't drop, trade with a toy he can have that forces him to drop the other, and so on). That way he'll learn to do acceptable behaviors when the occasion calls for it. A good canine person is Patricia McConnell; she has several books (and ebooks) available.
    and I used this site: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training...ining-textbook
    heaps when I first started training.
    Last edited by unsuperb; 08-28-2012 at 05:05 PM.

  7. #2177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    maybe i'll hang some "beware of dog" signs on the yard. i've been reading about dog behavior and apparently i'm doing it all wrong. i'm down with being the alpha and seeing a dog as a dog (rather than as a creature with human emotions), but i thought that meant correcting every bad behavior. turns out, our dog just doesn't see me as alpha yet. i need to quit talking and learn dog body language, which is good, because i prefer to communicate via body language anyway. it's much more intuitive. today was our last walk before the surgery, and then i pick him up from the vet tomorrow.

    oh, also, pits need "mental challenges." it's not a challenge like humans like challenges, but rather things that i would consider frustrating. like putting a treat on the floor and telling the dog he can't have it for a while, then letting him have it.
    One thing I would suggest (apologies if I am telling you how to suck eggs here) is to make sure that all of your kids take turns feeding the dog. Food is THE way dogs accept your dominance over them.

    No adult dog is going to naturally think that they are below a toddler within the family, which means that when he thinks your wee boy is out of line it's entirely appropriate for him to 'discipline' the boy. By having your boy (and your other kids) feed the dog his dinner sometimes, it reinforces to the dog that his place in the family hierarchy is below your kids.

    In terms of challenges for your dog we had friends with a rigid rubber 'thingy' (looks a little like a ball) that they put peanut butter inside. It took the dog about a hour to lick it all out.

    Edit: while I never knew about it with any dogs I had growing up, have you looked into the clicker method for training him? We've found some pretty good videos that use it (our kids are a big fan of Dazzle)
    Last edited by magicmerl; 08-28-2012 at 04:26 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
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  8. #2178
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsuperb View Post
    /lurking.
    1. Cute dog is cute! I have two bullies, and they've been a riot.

    2. The whole "alpha" thing with dogs is not entirely accurate and is not safe to attempt with larger dogs (not that it's good with smaller dogs, but they are tinier of mouth). Instead of trying to correct every bad behavior; redirect, redirect, and redirect some more (so if he's chewing on something naughty, trade with something that's okay; or if he's tugging on something and won't drop, trade with a toy he can have that forces him to drop the other, and so on). That way he'll learn to do acceptable behaviors when the occasion calls for it. A good canine person is Patricia McConnell; she has several books (and ebooks) available.
    and I used this site: Digital Dog Training Textbook | Dog Star Daily
    heaps when I first started training.
    Patricia mcconnell was suggested to me by the clerk at the pet store. Actually, funny story. I mentioned that i adopted a dog from the specific shelter, and she asked which. It turns out, she volunteers there, and she related to me that the head trainer there was so in love with my dog that he wanted to take him home (but already has too many dogs himself). Everyone at the shelter is very happy that our dog was adopted, he's very much a favorite.

    anyway, from what i'm told (and what you're telling me), raising a pit is very similar to raising toddlers. i've had a few years experience with that, so i think i'm on the right path. but the missing key, i think, was/is body language and tone (which both convey dominance). his trainers at the shelter are all men, and so he's not quite used to my higher pitch voice. I have been reading more about dominant body language, and i'm realizing that most common affectionate human behaviors are actually signs of submission. dog was afraid of the sprayer while i bathed him, and to try to calm him i hugged him in a way where my shoulder was under his chin. this sort of submissive cue is more likely to frighten him than settle. other than that, every time i've violated his personal space, he has acted submissively toward me. poor dog is probably just getting mixed messages from me.

    why do you say that the dominance thing isn't totally accurate or safe?
    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    One thing I would suggest (apologies if I am telling you how to suck eggs here) is to make sure that all of your kids take turns feeding the dog. Food is THE way dogs accept your dominance over them.

    No adult dog is going to naturally think that they are below a toddler within the family, which means that when he thinks your wee boy is out of line it's entirely appropriate for him to 'discipline' the boy. By having your boy (and your other kids) feed the dog his dinner sometimes, it reinforces to the dog that his place in the family hierarchy is below your kids.
    this is a good point. another interesting thing i read today was that you need to have your dogs walk beside or behind you, and only stop when you choose rather than when the dog is interested in something. this establishes you as the pack leader on the walk, so the dog will follow your body language instead of expecting you to follow his. our dog is quite pull-y and interested in whatever we pass, so this will be a challenge for us.

    In terms of challenges for your dog we had friends with a rigid rubber 'thingy' (looks a little like a ball) that they put peanut butter inside. It took the dog about a hour to lick it all out.

    Edit: while I never knew about it with any dogs I had growing up, have you looked into the clicker method for training him? We've found some pretty good videos that use it (our kids are a big fan of Dazzle)
    i picked up "kong extreme" and a large kennel. i intend to take him for a run every day during the cooler part of the day. but when we have company over, at least until we know that he will be calm, we intend to kennel him. the head trainer suggested stuffing the kong with peanut butter and something else, and then freezing it. i wonder if a more dog-friendly food like mashed avocado would work just as well? at least the fatty acid profile would be better.

    WRT clicker method, the trainer said it works well, but instead of a clicker they use "yes," so they don't need to carry around a clicker everywhere.

  9. #2179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    this is a good point. another interesting thing i read today was that you need to have your dogs walk beside or behind you, and only stop when you choose rather than when the dog is interested in something. this establishes you as the pack leader on the walk, so the dog will follow your body language instead of expecting you to follow his. our dog is quite pull-y and interested in whatever we pass, so this will be a challenge for us.
    I guess that will work if you are on a bike or you have an old dog.... Ours was always too energetic for that. On the plus side it's a good upper arm workout for you if you want to move him on from an interesting smell

    I would also make him wait until after you guys eat dinner to feed him his too.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  10. #2180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse View Post
    why do you say that the dominance thing isn't totally accurate or safe?
    Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by dominance. A certain trainer who I won't name relies on establishing dominance/being the "alpha" over dogs, but in doing so, is only getting them to respond out of fear and when a dog is responding out of fear, well, they can be unpredictable. Things like rolling a dog onto their back or forcing them into positions they wouldn't normally assume (in order to assert your own dominance) is not a good way to get them to learn. But it sounds like you mean it in an entirely different way than I originally interpreted it

    And yes, they're very much like toddlers There were many frustrating, tear-my-hair out moments with both of them, but now they're pretty cool dogs. I've worked on clicker training with one (and using capture words, like "yes"), and the other is deaf, so he gets sign language. Word of caution: despite their size, they're pretty sure they are lap dogs.


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