Saoirse's Primal Journal page 160

[drssgchic]

*guiltily stops eyeroll half-way through*

Kidding. Those are important questions to ask. We are inundated by perfect bodies and airbrushed bodies and the idea that if you look like anything other than "barely pubescent" to "maidenly" that there's something wrong with you. Men are subject to this, but not to the extent that women are and have been for a very long time. Things are getting better for us, but not to the point that stretch marks are just part of who you are instead of a flaw proving "what you gave up." As an aside- you didn't give up anything. You gained three beautiful children. You have a healthy body that accomidated them during gestation. Carrying around little people for 9 months is bound to leave a mark or two.

I struggle with my body image a lot, too. You're right- it affects everything. I know I'm not "unfortunate" (isn't that a great descriptor? My therapist was great) but I'm too aware of my many flaws to think I'm pretty/attractive/whatever. That makes it hard for me to approach pretty people because I see myself as less. Which is just silly, really. But it happens. I did discover that while I was doing belly dancing and riding I had a better image. Are there things that you can do that emphasize your strengths? So that you can revel in what your body IS and CAN do rather than what the media tells you it SHOULD be?

Just this morning, actually- on the elevator I couldn't look the other person in the eye because my pants are way too small at this point and my skin is making it clear that my eating habits have been less than acceptable. Because I'm sure that's totally what he was focusing on instead of "ugh, I have 8 hours of work ahead of me."

Is there any way you can get your husband to tell/show you that he likes that, but he likes you better? A way that you will believe. After all, words and actions only work on us when we believe them

Long story short- I hear you, I feel you, and I'm glad that you're willing and able to ask the questions. Not everyone is.

As a total aside- I've been thinking for a while now that you look a lot like the Queen in my favorite series. She was awesome.

[canio6]

Yeah, I am not sure what to say to be honest. I think you look great, but I don't get hung up on stretch marks, chiseled abs or whatever. Hell, I have stretch marks and I don't have 3 little ones to show for it. I look at those women like I look at fashion (yeah, my wife watches fashion shows and though it hurts my hetero soul to say it I am beginning to pick up on what is 'fashionable'): I can see this amazing creation walking down the runway and think, "Yeah, that looks cool. I'd stop and take a second look if I saw it on the street, but damned if I would wear it. Give me a pair of shorts/jeans and a tshirt" These 'perfect' women are the same way - oh cool, that is nice to look at, but kind of uncomfortable and I'd much rather be with..."

Imperfections are what makes beauty in my mind. None of us are perfect, but that is what makes us beautiful and interesting. A friend (for lack of a better term) sends me links to pron. Occasionally I will click on them if bored and I always think, "WTF all these chicks look the same..." It is boring as hell. Models etc are the same. One perfect stomach looks just like the next perfect airbrushed/natural stomach. Yawn. Give me a little scar, a blemish, perhaps a stretch mark or three.

As for your husband, yeah, he is probably clueless. He's a dude. We tend to be pretty oblivious. Just let him know that he can keep his pictures to himself.

Now go check yourself out in the mirror, you look great.

[Finnegans Wake]

Gotta ditto canio on this one, point for point. Real women are hot, models are plastic people. You do look great, Saoirse. Next time hubby shows you a pic of some model, just remember she shits in a hopper like the rest of us. Only difference is, her craps are tiny bits of undigested celery and watercress. Fuck that shit.

Mrs. FW and I don't really outwardly ogle hotties, but occasionally one or the other of us may comment, but not to make the other feel bad. And we have the Celebrity Exception Rule, of course. If she has the chance at Rob Lowe or I have a shot at Sofia Vergara, we're bending the rules of matrimony temporarily. But any such discussion of other folks should be in fun, and respectful of the partner, which does not appear to be the case with you and hub.

[Saoirse]

drssgchic- you've hit the nail on the head. it's not totally about how i *actually* look, it's the fact that i base so much of my importance on how i look.

namelesswonder- i want to be like that, but i'm not. and i have to just accept that.

furthermore, it's not about the fact that men like eye candy. everyone likes eye candy. but male's POV is so overrepresented in our culture, it really messes with my head. instead of my view being about what *I* want, it's about what others want. my husband doesn't even know how he stands up physically against other men; he doesn't size up other men to see who's more attractive and who's less. if he had to rate himself and others as a number of physical attractiveness, he wouldn't know where to start. the fact that i can't relate to that POV is really telling about how fucked *I* am.

thanks for the kind words guys. JYACV- if i *was* going to cheat, it would be with a guy who seems really in tune with who i am, not how i look. but i don't cheat, that's just how i am.

drsschic- he has tried that tactic. he has sent me pictures of attractive naked women and said "i think you're much hotter." i dunno, i wanted to be appreciative, but it just hurt more. it's the actual ranking and picking apart of bodies that's so hurtful, not necessarily where i rank. it feels so dehumanizing.

[justyouraveragecavemen]

thanks for the kind words guys. JYACV- if i *was* going to cheat, it would be with a guy who seems really in tune with who i am, not how i look. but i don't cheat, that's just how i am.

No offense meant, I hope none taken.

[Saoirse]

no. you never know, but creepy neighbor dude is more chauvinistic than my husband. it's worth mentioning that my husband's views have changed over the years; become more progressive. but i'm still sort of stuck in the past to some extent, as far as our relationship goes. i don't know how to move past that.

[drssgchic]

drssgchic- you've hit the nail on the head. it's not totally about how i *actually* look, it's the fact that i base so much of my importance on how i look.

drsschic- he has tried that tactic. he has sent me pictures of attractive naked women and said "i think you're much hotter." i dunno, i wanted to be appreciative, but it just hurt more. it's the actual ranking and picking apart of bodies that's so hurtful, not necessarily where i rank. it feels so dehumanizing.

I think that says a lot about what's going on. You know that people DO pick apart physical aspects of others, and it's easy to think they're doing it to you- thereby denying your humanity. Which is upsetting. I think it's perfectly fair of you to explain that to the hubs as to why you'd prefer to not look at the pictures again. Women, in particular, are trained/enculturated/indoctronated to see each other as "the enemy" in pursuit of "a man" so we are particularly inclined to do that.

I'm afraid I'm not sure how to fix it, though.

However, as a woman, I'm more than happy to talk through it with you

[Saoirse]

that's pretty much it right there. can't we all be just people? certainly we can, but somehow i'm preventing myself from seeing things that way. people are people unless that person is a woman who is as attractive or more attractive than me. then she's competition. for what? who the fuck knows, and it's absolutely ridiculous. but i have no clue how to get out of this way of thinking.

anyway, i feel like my funk is slowly lifting. kind of sucks that i had to use my "free time" while the kids were at a sitter for this, but oh well. thanks for listening.

[Mud Flinger]

You should listen to these wise men (and women) who have chimed in thus far! We all wish we were more perfect, but ya know that model would probably be intimidated by you - by who you are or what you have done in some ways also! I would share w/ hubby how these situations make you feel and tell him that unless he wants his flaws flaunted in his face that he'd better knock it off. Would he like to hear how lame he was in bed last night? Or that his $$ making abilities are the suck - like a worthy man would have been able to find work in town or blah blah blah (please don't think I believe this, but I bet he feels a bit of this). He's probably clueless about how this is messing with you and loves you to death - he is lucky to have such a lovely wife! None of us get to have it all - remember that situations are what they are and you can choose to work to make life better in ways that make everyone better - or not. FWIW I was suprised lately that my hubby feels like he doesn't do enough to make $$ and was kinda feeling bad about it. Fact: He makes lots of $$! We live comfortably and debt free. It's just where he was feeling vulnerable at the moment because of so much other crap he's been through in the past couple of years - about all he can do now is make $$ (he's kinda disabled from back surgery and a hip replacement at the moment). Life is about so much more than looks. Maybe a gratitude journal would help to refocus your thoughts to the good stuff?

[Urban Forager]

i wanted to be appreciative, but it just hurt more. it's the actual ranking and picking apart of bodies that's so hurtful, not necessarily where i rank. it feels so dehumanizing.

It is dehumanizing.

Hubby may not be able to understand how that feels. As women we are constantly inundated with images of the ideal and the ideal is purely physical, it has nothing to do with any other traits or accomplishments. It is pretty hard not to let that effect how we view ourselves. W/o going into a long explanation of the objectification of women in our culture and how that insidiously infiltrates our self image no matter how intelligent we are it may be best to simply ask him not to share those images with you.

I can only guess that the equivalent for men might be women talking about how financially successful another man is and then saying but honey I'm glad I am with you. The guy would start to wonder if his wife on some level is impressed/prefers what the other man has.