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Thread: Ridiculous CW-ish pseudoscience page

  1. #1
    Griff's Avatar
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    So I was poking around YouTube looking at videos about the Paleo/Primal lifestyle, and ran across a video by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, M.D. His big hobbyhorse is that we need to eat "nutrient-dense foods." Sounds pretty Primal to me.


    I was with him right up until he started saying that meat is bad for you and that fat causes fat. At that point, he lost me. Until then, it looked pretty promising.


    But maybe I hadn't understood correctly. So I looked up his book, "Eat to Live," on Google Books. It had a limited preview, and again, it looked pretty promising right up until he made the unsupported "fat causes fat" assertion, when he said, and I quote:


    "Fat is an /appetite stimulant/: the more you eat, the more you want."


    BZZZT! Wrong! Anyone who's been eating Primally for any length of time knows that fat causes *satiation,* not hunger or appetite. I know from experience: five pork rinds, and I don't want any more because I have no appetite left. Carbohydrates are the appetite-stimulating culprits, as we all know.


    He talks a little bit about how insulin stores fat, and that's fine, because it's mostly true, but he misses that insulin stores sugar as fat, not fat as fat. He misses that insulin's job is to turn sugar into fat and store it in fat cells. (As far as I understand it, insulin does not interact directly with dietary fat.)


    It drives me so crazy when I read stuff like this, from someone who is obviously intelligent but still unable to hit the broad side of the scientific barn.

    Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

    Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


    Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

    My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

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    OnTheBayou's Avatar
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    It's amazing, isn't it? Intelligent, highly trained in the sciences, and then they get everything 180 degrees around.


    When someone asks me "Don't they know what they are talking about?", my reply is "Sure. Just like smoking was good for you the doctors said back when."


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    I think for the most part Joel Furhmans book isn't too bad. He recommends nutrient dense foods, he cuts grains back to 1 serving a day. No sugars, salt or frankenfood food like soy dogs. He recommends eating lots of vegetables ( IIRC a starting point is 1 pound per day of raw then the rest cooked), nuts seeds, some fruit. Where he varies from the Primal, is he recommends beans for protein 1/2 or 1 cupo a day and he obviously disagrees with primal on the fat question. For someone who is a vegetarian for ethical reasons who wants to have a good diet without meat its likely a decent starting point. He has had good success with weight loss and reversing heart disease in patients. He was also an Olympic athlete when he was younger but not sure if he follwed his diet at that time.

    Cheers

    J


  4. #4
    adipocyte's Avatar
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    I'm a graduate student in biomed research and I'm not going to be able to do my thesis in diabetes or obesity because the dominant paradigm is just unmoveable right now. They believe completely that fat causes insulin resistance. They have the evidence -- when you INFUSE fat into a person's blood stream, their insulin stops working. Yes, really, that's the experiment that convinced everyone that high-fat diets cause type 2 diabetes.


    Here's the thing -- triglycerides cannot get from your stomach to your blood, they have to be broken down into fatty acids first. How do triglycerides get into your blood? From your liver. Why does your liver release triglycerides? When it's stimulated to do so by insulin. And what causes insulin to go up? Carbs, right? But they won't bite.


    It's really quite frustrating.


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    OnTheBayou's Avatar
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    I KNEW I should be mainlining my coconut oil......


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    Griff, Have you read GCBC? I'm reading the chapter titled Carbohydrate Hypothesis II. In this chapter, Taubes talks about how having glucose in the blood and therefore insulin, supresses the burning of fatty acids. Not only that, the glycerol phosphate molecule which is a by-product of burning glucose causes the fatty acids circulating in blood to combine and form triglycerides. I asked my husband, a physician, about this and he confirmed the veracity (not that I doubted Taubes&#39. So when the medical establishment knows how insulin stimulation causes storage of fat, why they all promote a carb-rich diet over fat boggles me.


    Here's a review of Eat to Live by Sally Fallon of WAP - she gives a thumbs down.

    http://www.westonaprice.org/bookrevi...t-to-live.html


  7. #7
    Mick's Avatar
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    [quote]

    They have the evidence -- when you INFUSE fat into a person&#39;s blood stream, their insulin stops working. Yes, really, that&#39;s the experiment that convinced everyone that high-fat diets cause type 2 diabetes.</blockquote>


    I didn&#39;t know they&#39;d actually claimed that - that "high-fat diets cause type 2 diabetes".


    But the "experiment" doesn&#39;t surprise me. They know that the scientific method requires controlled experiments. So they carry out controlled experiments - which, in their case, tends to mean something that&#39;s easy to set up, easy to do, and easy to control. That doesn&#39;t make it in the least relevant to a real situation. It&#39;s surprising to me that they don&#39;t see this.


    I assume they don&#39;t. I mean people in any job in the world always look to be doing something for no better reason than to be justifying the existence of their job, but I think it&#39;s more than that. I&#39;m sure they believe these "experiments" are immediately useful and "applicable".


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    OnTheBayou's Avatar
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    Job security explains many logical anomalies of human behavior.....


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    maba's Avatar
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    I just came across this article.


    http://fittipdaily.wordpress.com/2007/12/13/are-carbs-evil/
    [quote]

    When the body lacks carbs to fuel the muscle it goes into a cannibalistic state. That’s right folks, your body starts eating your own muscle!!!! Remember Silence of the Lambs… you get my point.</blockquote>


    This is the kind of information that gets passed off as nutritional advice!


  10. #10
    Travis G's Avatar
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    Adipocyte, I am not a graduate student in anything, I&#39;m actually far from it. So I&#39;m not trying to be a douche, but just kind of wanted to get your position on the following: Doesn&#39;t protein cause a response to insulin also?


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