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  1. #11
    slacker's Avatar
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    I like unfiltered ACV or lemon juice in water. I like tea better. Tannic acid vs acetic acid? Any opinions?

  2. #12
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    I just read the AcOH Japanese study , and it really looked interesting.

    A few takeaways:
    1. The effects are due to AMPK phosphorylation, not loss of water.
    2. Effects are dose dependent. Higher doses produce better results.
    3. Effects initially manifested after 4 weeks.


    AMPK Phosphorylation

    AMPK is your best friend, get to know it, you'll get along swimmingly!


    AMPK induces a cascade of events within cells in response to the ever changing energy charge of the cell. The role of AMPK in regulating cellular energy charge places this enzyme at a central control point in maintaining energy homeostasis.

    AMPK inhibits pancreatic beta cell insulin secretion, as well as inhibiting fatty acid synthesis in the liver and adipose tissue.

    AMPK promotes fatty acid oxidation and glucose uptake in both skeletal and heart muscle, as well as promoting increased glycolysis in cardiac muscle.

    Practical Application

    The experimental protocol called for the AcOH to be drunk after the meals, but I suspect that this was due to a desire to not have the beverage potentially affect the amount of food consumed by the subjects. Because of the mechanism of action of AMPK, it might make more sense to ingest AcOH before meals. Nevertheless, if you want to remain faithful to the experiment, drink a 250 ml. apple vinegar cocktail after breakfast, and another after dinner. The high dose effectively doubled the amount of vinegar ingested from 15 ml. to 30 ml. per day which translated into 750 mg. and 1500 mg. of acetic acid. Keep this up for 4 weeks, and see where that gets you!

    I'm game. I like vinegar and this sounds like a fairly painless way to get some results.

    -PK

  3. #13
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    Before we all start building shrines to AMPK, there is one thing that I forgot to mention. While AMPK inhibits fatty acid synthesis in adipose tissue, it also inhibits lipolysis, ie the breakdown of triglycerides into free fatty acids. So, if you were to think of AMPK as effectively shutting down adipose tissue, that's would be pretty close to the mark. This effect is a good thing when you are talking about feeding events as it will keep the adipose tissues from assimilating your last meal. This effect is questionable if you are fasting, when the prime directive is to have your adipose tissues release their contents into the blood stream for use as an energy substrate. As there are lots of hormonal changes that are going on while fasting, it is unclear what the net effect of fasting and drinking vinegar would be. However, if you stick to the protocol of only drinking vinegar with your meals, that should present no issues.

    -PK

  4. #14
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    i think raw ACV tastes good....i put it on all canned seafood i eat. my mom did it growing up. everytime we had tuna/salmon or some canned fish there was always ACV in it. its really good i dunno about any health claims for it, just its tasty

  5. #15
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    Back in 1968 I was passing some time in a big town called Caribou, Maine with a friend that went through some service time with me. (He said that they changed the population sign every time he went home or left.) One thing that I learned up there was to take a glass of half apple cider vinegar and half honey every day. Been doing that since then and haven't had a cold, the flu, a fever, etc. etc. . I won't tell you that it will cure all your ills, but I won't give it up either.
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  6. #16
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    Melody: re; your love of anything fermented. Have you come up with a primal substitute for bourbon?
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  7. #17
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    The glass of water with some apple cider vinegar and a teaspoonful of honey first thing in the morning is an old Amish habit. Helps many things, is my impression.

    They no doubt grew their own apples, and some of them probably kept their own bees as well. As a health habit, this one exhibits some good low-cost self-sufficiency.

    Malic acid is supposed to help with chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, in combination with magnesium. Apples are a rich source of malic acid.

    Well, why not have some?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by periquin View Post
    Back in 1968 I was passing some time in a big town called Caribou, Maine with a friend that went through some service time with me. (He said that they changed the population sign every time he went home or left.)
    I had to laugh at this quote, same could be said for the small fishing village where I live here on the coast of Maine.
    You'll never see the light if you're in someone else's shadow, or said another way, life is like a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the scenery never changes

  9. #19
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    i had a very quick look through that study and it appeared to me that the subjects weren't allowed more than 25mls of alcohol in the test period (which I assumed was 8 weeks) That might explain why they lost weight and body fat. I hate ACV (I hate apples actually, I cant even stand being in the same room as someone eating one, the smell makes me gag) but I might seriously consider it if it meant I'd drop some fatty bits round my middle

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