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Thread: T-Nation Workout controversy page

  1. #1
    jackson44's Avatar
    jackson44 is online now Senior Member
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    T-Nation Workout controversy

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    Hello Primal Friends

    I am a primal follower and also a writer for T-Nation. This week I wrote about my transition from a bodybuilder to a conditioning athlete. The article caused such an uproar! If you get a chance to read it, read the discussion. I got so much hate mail!

    Here is the link:

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...der_to_bad_ass

    Thanks,
    Jackson

  2. #2
    erica057's Avatar
    erica057 is offline Senior Member
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    What are people upset about?
    My food blog ~ http://stuffimakemyhusband.blogspot.com
    My primal success story

    "Boxing seems to contain so complete and so powerful an image of life -- life's beauty, vulnerability, despair, incalculable and often self-destructive courage -- that boxing IS life, and hardly a mere game." --Joyce Carol Oates

  3. #3
    Bostonbully's Avatar
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    I'm sorry man even though you have been lifting longer then I have probably been alive I can't believe how messed up your lifting was. You say you tried every lifting technique known to man but then you say you stopped doing deadlifts and squats. So you basically didn't want to grow. Dead lifts and squats are full body lifts. No your not going to get big arms by doing them but they work just about everything else. Not to mention if I'm not mistaken squats give you the highest release of testosterone then any other exercise. I can't believe it took you that many years to get things sorted out.

    I myself have only been lifting regularly since the middle of August 2010. I do half body work outs three times a week. Alternating so that on one week I will work upper twice lower once then the next week the opposite. I concentrate on the big lifts bench, squat, and dead. Doing variations of them as I see fit. I also do bi's, tri's, and shoulders because I like to work on the "glamore" muscle. I've gained an inch in my arms (15" to 16") and I've gone from squatting 215 lbs to 345 lbs and deadlifting 250 lbs to 415 lbs since I have started. I'm certainly not setting any records but I'm doing good for a 185 lb guy.
    "Live Free or Die"

  4. #4
    Lojasmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erica057 View Post
    What are people upset about?
    Hypertestosteronemia.

    Great article. Clearly the bros got their panties in a twist.
    Last edited by Lojasmo; 10-23-2010 at 03:09 PM.

  5. #5
    erica057's Avatar
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    OK, I looked at the comments. I get why they're irritated. As one poster said, "good article, wrong place", and I agree. People in fringe groups already deal with a lot of crap from the mainstream and I understand why they'd be annoyed for you to come into their "safe space" and suggest that they abandon their goals. There was a similar controversy on T-Nation when Chad Waterbury wrote the article "Sexy Female Training", telling all the women on the site that they should train to look like Jaime Pressley and the other gross muscly women should "stick to my other mass building programs and head to Tijuana for some D-bol.". I can't relate as much to male bodybuilders but, as a muscular woman, I hate that I'm constantly told that muscle is many and unfeminine, but then to see that same rhetoric on T-Nation, where muscle is supposed to be celebrated, was hurtful and frustrating.

    Additionally, bodybuilders aren't "blobby", I just watched Pumping Iron and Arnold is so lean that you can see the muscle striations in his face when he chews. No shit bodybuilding is unhealthy, I mean T-Nation has a whole forum dedicated to steroid use, obviously health isn't the #1 concern but you can't really judge others for not having the same priorities as yourself. I also think it's kind of lame to idealize GSP as a physique goal when he trains for a specific function rather than for a particular look. If you want to be a rib-kicking neck-choking badass and you want to train like GSP then great!! But it is silly to do a minimal workout and say that it's because you want to look like GSP. Say that you're doing it to be the healthiest you, rather than arbitrarily citing an athlete in a trendy sport. I guarantee that GSP is doing a hell of a lot more training that the routine you present.

    It was a good article though but I think it would be better received here at MDA.
    My food blog ~ http://stuffimakemyhusband.blogspot.com
    My primal success story

    "Boxing seems to contain so complete and so powerful an image of life -- life's beauty, vulnerability, despair, incalculable and often self-destructive courage -- that boxing IS life, and hardly a mere game." --Joyce Carol Oates

  6. #6
    Bostonbully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erica057 View Post
    OK, I looked at the comments. I get why they're irritated. As one poster said, "good article, wrong place", and I agree. People in fringe groups already deal with a lot of crap from the mainstream and I understand why they'd be annoyed for you to come into their "safe space" and suggest that they abandon their goals. There was a similar controversy on T-Nation when Chad Waterbury wrote the article "Sexy Female Training", telling all the women on the site that they should train to look like Jaime Pressley and the other gross muscly women should "stick to my other mass building programs and head to Tijuana for some D-bol.". I can't relate as much to male bodybuilders but, as a muscular woman, I hate that I'm constantly told that muscle is many and unfeminine, but then to see that same rhetoric on T-Nation, where muscle is supposed to be celebrated, was hurtful and frustrating.

    Additionally, bodybuilders aren't "blobby", I just watched Pumping Iron and Arnold is so lean that you can see the muscle striations in his face when he chews. No shit bodybuilding is unhealthy, I mean T-Nation has a whole forum dedicated to steroid use, obviously health isn't the #1 concern but you can't really judge others for not having the same priorities as yourself. I also think it's kind of lame to idealize GSP as a physique goal when he trains for a specific function rather than for a particular look. If you want to be a rib-kicking neck-choking badass and you want to train like GSP then great!! But it is silly to do a minimal workout and say that it's because you want to look like GSP. Say that you're doing it to be the healthiest you, rather than arbitrarily citing an athlete in a trendy sport. I guarantee that GSP is doing a hell of a lot more training that the routine you present.

    It was a good article though but I think it would be better received here at MDA.
    Yea and all the stuff she said too lol.
    "Live Free or Die"

  7. #7
    New Renaissance's Avatar
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    I don't frequent T-nation regularly, but somehow I stumbled across this article before you posted on here. I was thinking about linking it to share.

    The biggest thing I took away from the piece was how orthorexic BodyBuilding is, and how ridiculous the mentalities are with some of the lifters. People obsess over how their arms look instead of how many pounds of iron they can pick up off the floor. The eating 9 times a day with supplements and protein shakes flying everywhere. It's just a Testosterone offshoot of anorexia driven by the magazines and supplement manufacturers.

    Jackson mentioned the comments:
    Bodybuilders are notoriously known for fishing for compliments. A normal conversation for meatheads sounds something like this:

    Meathead #1: "You're looking big."

    Meathead #2: "You too. Your arms are looking huge."

    Meathead #1: "Thanks. What are you doing for your legs? They're humungous!"

    Sound familiar? This type of sad little conversation constitutes 75% of the conversation overheard at any bodybuilding gym. I know because I was guilty of it when I went to the gym. I was always looking for validation from my buddies. I was even great at lying and telling anybody how big he looked, even when he was a pencil neck. Hearing those words, "You're looking big," sure went a long way in feeding my arm workouts when I heard them.

    So when my body started to lean out and I started getting in shape, I wasn't prepared for the lack of "looking huge" comments from my peers. It was difficult. Hearing that I was "looking big" was my identity for 20 years. This is who I wanted to be and who I thought I was.

    So when the lack of wow comments about my size switched to, "You're looking cut," or, "You're looking good," I took these comments as another way of saying I was shrinking to a bag of bones.

    I'm not going to lie to you — this transition was very difficult to my self-esteem, so I'm warning you, be prepared. Some of you will have serious withdrawal problems and will do anything to hear those words, "You're looking big," again.
    (my emphasis)

    These comments remind me of what teenage girls are worried about when they read cozmo -- just in reverse. Guys want to be Hyuuge, and girls want to be waif-er thin. I always felt stupid in the gym before I started finding my own way. I know the methods work for some higly dedicated and goal oriented individuals; but for most, the self-programmed 5 day split of arm curls, bench press, and leg presses and the bajillion variations of each combined with the massive ammounts of beefcake weightgainer and 30 pills a day of animal stack just makes for a lot of trips to the bathroom, and a puffy gut in about a month after they get into the routine. I am thrilled when the lightbulb goes on, and a "bodybuilder" makes the conversion to fitness.

    /rant

    * This isn't everyone, but a general statement to fit with the thread
    Last edited by New Renaissance; 10-24-2010 at 07:14 AM.

  8. #8
    Pandadude's Avatar
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    I have to agree with the T-nation commenters. You weren't good at bodybuilding, so you finally gave up and quit. That doesn't mean that other people can't be successful at bodybuilding. You were also very stereotypical and threw a lot of jealous rage around.
    After doing crossfit type condition training for around 4 months I'm transitioning to bodybuilding instead. I didn't really gain anything doing the crossfit type training. After a month I didn't really see any strength gains (hard to add weight when youre doing stupid amount of reps), I was still fairly skinny, and I just didn't enjoy the workouts. After lifting for just over a month I can see real results in the mirror.

    I think part of what you failed to comprehend is, that different people respond differently to various types of training. Pump training can work well for people with good nutrient partitioning (genetics or drugs), because their glycogen stores are easily repleted leaving room for muscle building. Genetically average people may move more nutrients into fat instead of muscles, leaving little extra for growth once muscles are repleted.
    These people may see better results doing power training, because muscle glycogen isn't depleted with few reps and thus more nutrients can go into muscles actually adapting to the stressor.

    I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with lifting with machines, they just tend to be prefferable for pump training (your form will fail doing backsquats for 20+ reps etc), while compound olympic lifts or power lifts work better with power training (less joint stress once big weights are utilized, more explosive).
    Your all or nothing approach was also quite annoying. I primarily do power training, but once in a while I might throw in a session of pump training for a different type of stressor. At the same time I also ride my bike several miles a day, I enjoy doing a quick session of interval running in my new vibrams, and I feel capable of performing pretty well in a variety of sports.

  9. #9
    jackson44's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your comments! I appreciate them all.

    For Pandadube, you are right I didn't comprehend that differenet people respond to different types of training. I agree with you.

    i wrote the piece because I wanted to share my expereince of trying to improve myself. However, as I got into my 40's, my bodybuilding workouts wasn't working like how they did when I was teenager, I had high blood pressure, and my lazy ass was too lazy. I needed a change.

    I'm a former PE coach, so I encourage any kind of movement or excercise that one likes. What you do may not work for me, but do it.

    Good luck with you all in your training.
    Jack

  10. #10
    OnlyBodyWeight's Avatar
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    Good article.
    Bodybuilding is not real fitness.
    And it's predictable that you started getting fat.
    Can you post some pictures of your body thru the years?

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