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Thread: Did Australian Aborigines reach America first? page

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    shemdogg's Avatar
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    Sam Cree's Avatar
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    Really weird. Fascinating that they may have been in Florida. As opposed to, say, Queensland.

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    Interesting

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    They need to do some serious genetic testing, but I would not be surprised. I think our ancestors, including the aborigines of Australia and Polynesia, were incredibly adroit sailors. The Polynesians traveled in canoes as far as 3000 miles to people the islands of the Pacifc. This is certainly not a skill they picked up overnight.

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    Yes, this story's been around for awhile.

    I've seen a TV programme where a wall painting in a South America cave seemed to be showing a battle between two different groups of people, one painted darker than the other.

    It's been suggested that the people in Tierra del Fuegia may have been the last remnants of such a population.

    Google: fuegians australia

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    There was a fascinating study done by a woman in New Zealand to figure out where the native Maori population came from. It was originally believed that they were polynesian. The Mitochondrial DNA tests showed though that they are a combination of native Taiwanese and New Guinean. This fited perfectly with their folklore that said that families had travelled in 40 canoes and picked up guides along the way and married them!

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    There were remains of Australian aborigines found in Brazil. Apparently they lived there for some time. The walls of the cave in the area had many paintings -- old paintings-- showing battles between black skinned people and red skinned people. The remains had indications of "war damage" inflicted by the new invaders into the region.

    About ten years ago remains found in one of the North American Gulf states were determined to be the oldest remains found in the North America. They were Caucasian remains. When the face was reconstructed with clay, etc, by the forensic people, it looked like a bust of Sir Patrick Stewart. ( I think that is the name of the actor who played Captain Picard in the Star Trek series.)

    Further study was squashed very rapidly by a legal proceeding initiated by numerous Native American tribes and the remains were buried in some undisclosed but sacred site for Native Americans. I guess they didn't want to loose their claim to being first.

    I could care less what my number is. Incidentally, This is not an anti-Indian post. I have Taino forbears ---Taino were the people who 'discovered' Columbus. That event in history led to the Taino dodging extinction by Cherokee, Seminole, and Carib. Nothing hateful here either, just reflecting on history.

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    Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by periquin View Post
    About ten years ago remains found in one of the North American Gulf states were determined to be the oldest remains found in the North America. They were Caucasian remains.
    Kennewick Man? The shape of his skull is something like a European one, although it's said to be slightly more like an Ainu one.

    George Catlin in Letters and Notes noted that the Mandan sometimes had blue eyes and had hair of several different colours, including grey (as a normal colour not as a result of aging):

    ... so forcibly have I been struck with the peculiar ease and elegance of these people, together with the diversity of complexions, the various colours of their hair and eyes; the singularity of their language, and their peculiar and unaccountable customs, that I am fully convinced that they have sprung from some other origin than that of the other North American tribes ...

    and amongst the women particularly, there are many whose skins are almost white, with the most pleasing symmetry and proportion of features; with hazel, with grey, and with blue eyes ...

    The diversity in the colour of hair is also equally as great as that in the complexion; for in a numerous group of these people (and more particularly amongst the females, who never take pains to change its natural colour, as the men often do), there may be seen every shade and colour of hair that can be seen in our own country, with the exception of red or auburn, which is not to be found.

    And there is yet one more strange can probably be seen nowhere else accounted for, other than it is a freak or order of Nature, for which she has not seen fit to assign a reason. There are very many, of both sexes, and of every age, from infancy to manhood and old age, with hair of a bright silvery grey; and in some instances almost perfectly white.
    http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman.../letter13.html

    There was some rather off-the-wall speculation that the Mandan were descended from some lost mediaeval Welsh sailors. I believe that DNA work has now been done on the descendants of survivors* - most of the Mandan got wiped out by smallpox and then fell prey to stronger neighbours - and there's actually nothing Welsh about them. Possibly it's just human diversity rather than some particular origin.

    ****************

    *EDIT

    I think I misremembered this. I just googled it, and all I could find was that some Welsh organization wanted to do DNA sampling, but the reaction of a Mandan when asked about it was that "nobody was sticking needles in him".

    I think the whole idea is pretty crazy. In the 18th century a Welsh-speaking explorer, John Evans, trekked out there, on the basis that people had been saying the Mandan language contained some Welsh words, and after visiting said he was able to say definitively that the language was nothing like Welsh.
    Last edited by Lewis; 10-07-2010 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Add additional information

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    Lewis: Thanks for the post. You filled in some of the facts about things that I half remembered.

    I also heard stories about a Welsh origin of Native Americans. Both Mandan and Modoc were included as possibles in the papers that I read. Part of the theory was that the name 'Modoc' was derived from the family name of the Welsh forbears--Murdoch.

    Interesting tale, but I am not getting that excited about it. The story also said that one of the Murdoch brothers left and continued on to South America near the Patagonia Mountains. There is a Welsh community there that still looks like a Welsh village of years ago. Who knows?

  10. #10
    Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by periquin View Post
    There is a Welsh community there [in Patagonia] that still looks like a Welsh village of years ago.
    That's recent emigration.

    It's just an area where a lot of Welsh people went. I'm not sure why. it could be that particular skills they had were in demand in Patagonia. There was a lot of mining expertise in South Wales, for example.

    Bruce Chatwin mentions the Welsh in Patagonia in his book In Patagonia:

    http://www.amazon.com/Patagonia-Peng.../dp/0142437190

    I can't remember what drew them there, but he tells the story in that book.

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