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    healthymama's Avatar
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    Candida herxheimer reaction from primal diet? Please help...

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    So, my daughter and I have been primal for almost three months now with very good results except for the fact that she has come down with a candida infection for the second time. The first time she was treated with an oral medication which cleared up the problem, but now, about a month after treatment, the symptoms are back. She is itchy everywhere, most irritatingly in her mouth and urogenital area, but she also has red itchy patches on her skin and her stomach is often upset and crampy.

    I've been reading whatever I can find, and it seems like what she's having may be a candida herxheimer reaction. She's never had any problem like this before starting the diet, so I think the yeast in her body may be reacting to the now reduced amount of sugar in her body and dying off, thus causing symptoms.

    I am going to be taking her back to the doctor this week, but he is a new doctor and not familiar with the primal diet.

    Has anyone had any experience with this issue? Does Mark write about it anywhere? Are there any studies or articles anyone knows of that I might take to the doctor to help inform him about this (provided I am right, and this is the what's going on)?

    Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

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    Shrinking_Violet's Avatar
    Shrinking_Violet is offline Senior Member
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    The problem is that the medication she was given is non-discriminatory - it'll kill off the good bacteria too! Is she taking a probiotic? if not, it's vital she does.
    La tristesse durera toujours...

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    check out knowthecause.com doug kaufmann does a show about fungus and mark sisson was a frequent guest. i had an issue w yeast before but low carb does help as well as cod liver oil, coconut oil and eating low/no fruit (stick to berries). most doctors are suspicious of candida and try to give out antibiotics. if you're lucky they'll prescribe nystatin. even w nystatin there is a risk so your best bet is treat her w diet. be careful when starting the coconut oil as it is very antifungal. i used to get a pretty intense die off until the yeast calmed down. good luck;-)
    Red meat is not bad for you. Now blue-green meat, that's bad for you! ~Tommy Smothers

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    I am not sure about the primal/candida connection....but here are some tips I have used over the years for my longtime candida battle.

    -Usually I go low carb first, THEN start adding in antifungals after I have moved past the initial die off symptoms. Too much too soon makes things very rough.
    -Coconut oil is a big one for me, and when I used to be really bad, I had to increase my daily serving of this starting at 1 tsp a day. So if you are doing low carb + Coc oil, take it slow.
    -Rotate anti fungals every 4-6 weeks, oil of oregano, pau d' arco, coconut oil, grapefruit seed extract are some of the top over the counter options. Again, increase dosage slowly after stabilizing.
    -Check out Bee's candida tips, I followed her for years on yahoogroups and it was always the best advice. For energy dips the electrolyte drink REALLY helps (likely an adrenal issue), she also gives a lot of tips to deal with die off reactions

    Good luck! Hope she gets to feeling better soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrinking_Violet View Post
    The problem is that the medication she was given is non-discriminatory - it'll kill off the good bacteria too! Is she taking a probiotic? if not, it's vital she does.
    She was probably given an antifungal which doesn't kill bacteria (good or bad).

    Meadow has some good tips.

    I have also tried a product recommended by a nutritionist called Candex. That stuff made me SICK, as in vomiting. However, I think it's a sensitivity to cellulase enzymes, which is what it is composed of. I have heard/read really good things about it. If I were you, I'd try it. It's supposed to cause little/no die-off reaction. In my case, I think I was very sensitive to it (as I am any digestive enzymes with cellulase it appears).

    Also, I second Shrinking Violet's suggestion of probiotics. Good ones. There are plenty on the market. I'm assuming Cillakat's supplement list (do a search for her profile) will include some good ones.
    Last edited by ShannonPA-S; 09-27-2010 at 07:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shannon View Post
    check out knowthecause.com doug kaufmann does a show about fungus and mark sisson was a frequent guest. i had an issue w yeast before but low carb does help as well as cod liver oil, coconut oil and eating low/no fruit (stick to berries). most doctors are suspicious of candida and try to give out antibiotics. if you're lucky they'll prescribe nystatin. even w nystatin there is a risk so your best bet is treat her w diet. be careful when starting the coconut oil as it is very antifungal. i used to get a pretty intense die off until the yeast calmed down. good luck;-)
    The only problem is that some yeast is now nystatin-resistant. She might have to have diflucan. But the treatment for systemic yeast is much longer than vaginal yeast infections...assuming you can find a doctor to prescribe it for systemic yeast, being as though many don't believe it occurs.

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    Thanks for the info. I have been using coconut oil for cooking and just yesterday made coconut flour cookies that called for 1/2 cup of coconut oil...maybe that's what's doing it. I will definitely get her some good probiotics.

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    Natural things to fight (eliminate) fungus :

    Olive leaf extract, Caprylic acid, Grape seed extract, garlic, coconut ( source of caprylic acid), topical- tea tree oil.
    There are many more. Don't try all at once, but go on to monthly cycles.

    Doug Kaufman's Know the Cause----the tv show and the web site. Also, his Phase one diet---basically, eliminate sugar, grains, legumes, and restrict fruits. Sounds like PB but it is more stringent. It also is years older.

    Don't forget some daily-whatever the weather- outdoor exercise, even if it is just a walk around the block.

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    One convenient supplement that contains several of the candida-fighting components mentioned above is Now Foods' Candida Clear:
    http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Candi...Vcaps/462?at=0

    Check out the Product Reviews in this link; it seems to be very effective for many users. I don't believe I've ever had a serious candida problem, but I do use this product on occasion if I'm feeling "off", and invariably using it for a few days straight, along with cutting out all processed carbs and fruit, makes the problem go away.

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    I agree that Bee's site is a great one for yeast knowledge. My kids don't tolerate butter, but her recipes would all be primal other than butter. But she is even more strict on her diet (no winter squashes, no carrots, no honey, no nuts or nut butters, no fruit other than lemons and limes). For my son's issues, this was the first diet that allowed the painful bloat in his stomach to subside enough that he could finally sleep all night, at over 3 years old.

    I think antifungals can cause the same kind of resistant micro-organism issues as antibiotics, so be careful with prescribed ones. There are plenty of good natural ones. I used coconut oil and olive leaf complex with my son, and will be changing his antifungals soon, because the parasitic microflora (including the yeast) adapt to what you are doing and you have to keep outsmarting them.

    My ND also has my son on some Chinese herbal formulations and a soil based probiotic called Body Biotics. When I tried other probiotics with him on my own, his bloat got so much worse and he was like a crazy person, and that was on the expensive GAPS Bio-Kult probiotics.

    Every kids has different reactions to things. Hopefully you can find something that works for your little one.

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