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    pantrybites's Avatar
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    Question Going dairy-free: Anyone who tried experienced any noticeable differences?

    Primal Fuel
    So I've been listening to Robb Wolf's podcasts which are fantastic. His number one advice is to give up dairy and grains which seem to be the answer to most problems. I'd like to try giving up dairy- anyone have any advice on what I should expect? Understand that it will be different for everyone.

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    Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pantrybites View Post
    So I've been listening to Robb Wolf's podcasts which are fantastic. His number one advice is to give up dairy and grains which seem to be the answer to most problems. I'd like to try giving up dairy- anyone have any advice on what I should expect? Understand that it will be different for everyone.
    Maybe you'll bias the experiment by your expectations. :-)

    As to the question in the title - nothing I'm aware of. But ask me again in a month or so - I was thinking of dropping it out again to see.

    I shouldn't be surprised if I had problems, as I've been told that as a baby milk would sometimes make me sick. However, I don't seem to find any difference currently with or without it.

    It's difficult to know, because problems with your stomach as a baby could be down to cereals, since one of the first things mothers used to be told to give children was "baby cereal". I'm told I couldn't take orange juice either - again a strong recommendation at the time. My mother went to the doctor and he told her to give me rosehip syrup instead. I was fine on that. I guess it could well have actually been gluten screwing with my stomach causing problems with other foods - at the bottom of it all, so to speak.

    I'm pretty sure I'm not good on grains. I've never had an allergy test, but I feel awfully bad if I have a beer or two - and it's not just the alcohol! Beer will also give me a sneezing fit, as will porridge. Bread has made me literally throw up on occasion. None of these effects is invariable for me, but they seem like definite reactions.

    I sort of think that dairy may be in there in the Paleo "package" not because of its inherent qualities but because it makes a tidy package. We know prehistoric man didn't eat grain (rather didn't eat much grain - some did gather some), and we know he didn't eat dairy products. Voila! You have your "narrative". It's persuasive, of course, because: (a) farmers tend to be shorter than hunters (not invariably but on the whole); (b) they're rather less healthy; (c) we know some people do have definite allergic reactions to both foods mentioned.

    But because it all makes a tidy narrative doesn't make it definitively true. Problems with milk could be down to other factors. If someone definitively does have problems with milk, maybe it's down to the fact that it's pasteurized, or that it's from A1 cows ...

    Besides, we know of herding cultures that seem to be very healthy - and certainly no shorter than people living by the chase. Stefansson - who didn't know one was supposed to abhor dairy - pointed to the skeletons of mediaeval Icelanders (who were herders) as an indication that "animal food" made you healthy and robust, whereas cereals didn't. interestingly, he says the skull shape is in some ways not unlike that of Eskimos - which suggests that such things are not only determined by genetics but by what we eat.

    Robb does sometimes speak of lectins being present in milk. On the other hand, they're there in nuts, too ... which are, nevertheless, in the Paleo Diet, owing to the fact that prehistoric people gathered them.

    So I don't know - try dropping it out for a month or two and then "challenging" yourself with some. If you want to be rigorous you have to omit butter, too, because it has some dairy proteins in it. Use olive oil, coconut oil, goose fat, or whatever instead.

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    breadsauce's Avatar
    breadsauce is offline Senior Member
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    I still eat butter and cream - but cut out milk / cheese about 5 years ago. Removed all grains from my diet November 09. By February '10, the asthma I've suffered from since I was 3 years old was controlled - without steroid inhalers any longer. So - big results.

  4. #4
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    My personal experience was within 2 weeks of cutting out cheese, whole milk, cream and yogurt:

    1) the definition on my abs became clearer

    2) don't feel as bloated

    3) less prone to weight fluctuations

    I still eat plenty of Grassfed butter though.

  5. #5
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    I cut out most dairy ( still occasionally use small amounts of goat cheese, parmesan, raw milk cheese and butter) and have no issues. I don't even miss it.
    Gustofson on Health - " I eat bacon, a whole damn plate!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Maybe you'll bias the experiment by your expectations. :-)

    As to the question in the title - nothing I'm aware of. But ask me again in a month or so - I was thinking of dropping it out again to see.

    I shouldn't be surprised if I had problems, as I've been told that as a baby milk would sometimes make me sick. However, I don't seem to find any difference currently with or without it.

    It's difficult to know, because problems with your stomach as a baby could be down to cereals, since one of the first things mothers used to be told to give children was "baby cereal". I'm told I couldn't take orange juice either - again a strong recommendation at the time. My mother went to the doctor and he told her to give me rosehip syrup instead. I was fine on that. I guess it could well have actually been gluten screwing with my stomach causing problems with other foods - at the bottom of it all, so to speak.

    I'm pretty sure I'm not good on grains. I've never had an allergy test, but I feel awfully bad if I have a beer or two - and it's not just the alcohol! Beer will also give me a sneezing fit, as will porridge. Bread has made me literally throw up on occasion. None of these effects is invariable for me, but they seem like definite reactions.

    I sort of think that dairy may be in there in the Paleo "package" not because of its inherent qualities but because it makes a tidy package. We know prehistoric man didn't eat grain (rather didn't eat much grain - some did gather some), and we know he didn't eat dairy products. Voila! You have your "narrative". It's persuasive, of course, because: (a) farmers tend to be shorter than hunters (not invariably but on the whole); (b) they're rather less healthy; (c) we know some people do have definite allergic reactions to both foods mentioned.

    But because it all makes a tidy narrative doesn't make it definitively true. Problems with milk could be down to other factors. If someone definitively does have problems with milk, maybe it's down to the fact that it's pasteurized, or that it's from A1 cows ...

    Besides, we know of herding cultures that seem to be very healthy - and certainly no shorter than people living by the chase. Stefansson - who didn't know one was supposed to abhor dairy - pointed to the skeletons of mediaeval Icelanders (who were herders) as an indication that "animal food" made you healthy and robust, whereas cereals didn't. interestingly, he says the skull shape is in some ways not unlike that of Eskimos - which suggests that such things are not only determined by genetics but by what we eat.

    Robb does sometimes speak of lectins being present in milk. On the other hand, they're there in nuts, too ... which are, nevertheless, in the Paleo Diet, owing to the fact that prehistoric people gathered them.

    So I don't know - try dropping it out for a month or two and then "challenging" yourself with some. If you want to be rigorous you have to omit butter, too, because it has some dairy proteins in it. Use olive oil, coconut oil, goose fat, or whatever instead.
    I like this theory on cutting out dairy being a tidy package. THANK YOU very much for your insightful answer.

    www.pantrybites.com
    Real Good Primal Food

  7. #7
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    For me, no dairy means no cramping/bloating and as an asthamatic, my mucous is not thick and sticky. I have just recently found Kefir which is a cultured milk product in which most (sometimes all?) of the lactose is eaten up by the culture and lactase is left. I haven't had a problem so far with this product.

    And btw, herders do use 'dairy'. The Masai keep and move cattle from place to place and milk them. The Mongols have a fermented drink from Mares milk. Caveman may not have had milk, but primitive cultures sure have had it for a long time---usually in a fermented state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Besides, we know of herding cultures that seem to be very healthy - and certainly no shorter than people living by the chase. Stefansson - who didn't know one was supposed to abhor dairy - pointed to the skeletons of mediaeval Icelanders (who were herders) as an indication that "animal food" made you healthy and robust, whereas cereals didn't. interestingly, he says the skull shape is in some ways not unlike that of Eskimos - which suggests that such things are not only determined by genetics but by what we eat.
    There was a study done (but I can't find it) where a researcher took two twin girls and fed one a very CW diet and the other a more primal diet. The bone structure of the girl's faces ended up noticeably different.

    EDIT: Study I was referring to is discussed here:

    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...ilization.html - Its very short.

    and here : http://ryan-koch.blogspot.com/2010/0...expansion.html

    And finally here is something else relevant: http://www.mednauseam.com/2007/08/wh...ut-facial.html


    EDIT EDIT: I didn't remember the study correctly. He didn't change the girl's diet but with both he did dental work, but with one mimicked the way the jaw develops in pre-ag societies.
    Last edited by Bushrat; 09-27-2010 at 11:17 PM.

  9. #9
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    Interesting study! Thanks for posting that.

  10. #10
    Bern's Avatar
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    PrimalCon New York
    For me: the acne that I had tried 'everything' to clear and I thought I was genetically stuck with disappeared. My skin became clear and healthy looking and everyone wants to know what I do to keep my skin looking amazing (which is very little in the way of skin care - only a little emu oil after I get out of the shower).

    I eat no dairy, even butter makes my skin inflammed after a couple of days, but I eat ghee (butterfat, no milk proteins) regularly as a good source of sat fat.

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