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Thread: Protandim: Antioxidant Supplement (I'm skeptical but want MDA's opinion) page 4

  1. #31
    DFH's Avatar
    DFH
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    It's an MLM scam, aka "capitalist cult."

    The MLMs have tirelessly searched every health angle they can for decades to find more ways to sink the hook. Some of them actually do their homework, but stuff is typically priced 2-3 times what it's worth, and it's only a matter of time before the next "oh wow THIS stuff is what you HAVE to have" thing gets replaced with another.

    One thing they all have is common is the religious/cultlike fanaticism that people making a cut off it have for the flavor of the week. I know some people that got sucked into the Bionix craze, and it sounds about the same.. It's unique, it's patented, this is the ONLY real deal antioxidant, blah blah.

    Don't get near that stuff.

  2. #32
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    Has anyone noticed how this thread has attracted some suspicious people with 1 or 2 posts?

    Another thing you get when the MLM cult comes knocking is posers and sockpuppets!

  3. #33
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    Hi...

    I've been off and on this forum for some time. I hope that will lend my a tiny bit of credability. I just wrote a message and lost it. And now I'm tired, but wanted to still reply. I was actually curious if anyone here was talking about it.

    I personally have tried protandim. I tried the ingredients purchased seperately as well. I got completely different results. When on the product I have had a major reduction in pain (ballet related), I've had a change in complexion (commented on by friends and family), a change in thyroid function (confirmed by medical labs), and a change in energy levels, noticed by my spouse enough that he asked for whatever I'm taking. He has only noticed that he's not tired even when he works 15 hour days. Oh, and he had KP on his skin, that we just noticed was gone. And he's done nothing extra for that...

    Could this be a co-inky-dink. Sure. Maybe it was just time for our bodies to auto correct???

    I was so impressed however, I did sign up to be a distributor. I'm also degreed in biz, and I'm quite aware that a pyramid scam is when you take $$ and you don't give a product or service back in return. MLM's are a legit way to function in the biz world. They also offer a major degree of flexability, that a regular job does not. They also offer impressive income potential regardless if education and experience. How is this a bad thing?

    I have passed this product on to friends. Friends whom we could tell if it was "working" or not. People being treated for fybromyalgia, ADD and diabetes. All have reported impressive experiences. One has been able to quit taking over $200.00/month in RX and supplements. Another was able to take her child of ADD meds. The diabetic just feels better! These are friends that I'm happy to see FEEL better.

    Could their experiences be a co-inky dink... sure... their bodies could have just auto corrected???

    There are currently over 20 universities funding their own trials with Protandim, not its ingredients. Including the US Navy on their seals. I SURE HOPE, they aren't just blowing money for the sake of some MLM. I mean we're not talking about a huge powerful company here. There are no people that work at corp. that anyone would know or care about, or who has political power. I gather , rather they are passionate about the diseases they are studying and would LOVE to come up with something for the people that suffer from them. They are not BIG pharma trying to keep people ON expensive meds. However, big pharma is currently working on 2 meds that do the same thing. They are disease specific. I doubt they will cost $40.00 a bottle.

    There's a doctor out there that has studies his own patients on and off protandim. He has seen their defficiences virtually disappear.

    I currently take protandim, Vit D and Omega 3s.

    I'm happy to share more info. But not interested in picking up customers here. I like my privacy. If you want to try it, perhaps you know someone who sells it. And I will tell you, the autoship IS the cheap way to buy it, and it is VERY EASY to cancel. No one is going to keep charging your card for ever and ever. I've also had some friends who don't feel any difference and they don't see the need. To cxl the product you just have to make a phone call and long as it's not the day of your autoship, the computer just sends that out... you're off of it! Simple as that!

    If however, you run into a person that is just a loon, and starts making "cure" claims with it... or brow beats people into signing up... you can report that to the company! They will remedy the situation!

    Please consider: In the same way that being Primal is not just some crazy insane diet fad, like SO many out there, there really are some solutions to some major ills, and they really are quite simple in hind site. And shouldn't that be the way of it?
    Last edited by twinmama; 02-01-2012 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Crap... no spell check. Protandim does not cure the inability to spell! Going to bed now!

  4. #34
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    PS... it's NOT an antioxidant supplement. It's a Nrf2 activator. The short of it. It causes your body to make the enzymes that you naturally make but quit making as you age. They are totally bio-avail. No need to swallow a bunch of antioxidants. And you can't EAT enough to battle the amount of free radicals that fire off in your body every day. That's why you look older. YOU'RE NOT KEEPING UP!

  5. #35
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    bump on this one guys. seems as tho the majority of this thread is mlm vs everyone else. can anyone chime in on anymore postivies or negatives on protandim?

  6. #36
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    The product or promotor, no idea.
    Looked at a couple of the studies wasn't impressed with the design or results.

    Is there a specific condition that it is formulated to fix?, The only "fix it all" known to humanity is Snake Oil.
    Is the US military using it? This would be a perfect application, full output for days on end and no fatigue.
    What about Olympians and sporting organisations? elite atheletes would be the go, that's where even micro seconds count.

    I could go on, but something that allows you to continue straining muscles repeatedly day after day is probably not a good idea.

    Just recently I did some searching around on anti oxidants and the fact is that given a good diet, there is absolutely no benefit in any of them, if anyone thinks they can do a better job than nature can in balancing the human bodys needs, then they are delusional.

    Did we evolve dining under the antioxidant & multivitamin tree with conveniently packaged bottles containing 60 capsules dangling from it's limbs?

    Basically if you have an identified deficiency, then do your best to address it with supplementation, providing you have a healthy diet & lifestyle, otherwise it's just a waste of money.

    Any supplement should be specific to a condition and treated the same as a Medication.

    I am waiting now for the next scam selling us "Free Radicals", they are the Guerilla force we need to rescue our bodies and boost our metabolism.

  7. #37
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    Protandium isn't a miracle or snake oil anything that can change your tbars like this is worth checking out for yourself. I started taking it after my clients hair started turning back to brown... From grey. 20+ years behind the chair have never seen this before. I don't know anything about MLM but I do know I am feeling great and that counts for a lot. And I love to feel great.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by xntrik View Post
    The problem with MLM products is that they pack a high price in order to pay all the levels of upline.
    Except that Protandim was $50 + tax 10 years ago when it was in retail at stores like GNC... Now it's $40.

  9. #39
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    There are several inaccuracies in this thread that I registered to tackle.

    First, McCord DID NOT create Protandim. I even have a pdf of the letter McCord wrote saying that since Protandim was so closed to finished before he ever joined the team that he could not take credit for creating it. It was created by someone with no medical background. McCord was brought on board to give credibility to the product, and he has made a lot of money by being the face of it. In fact, here is a quote from Mayhill about using McCord for credibility: "Because the core composition came from a very unlikely source me we initially decided to hide that fact for marketing purposes and instead rely on the impeccable background of Dr. McCord. " (Inside Protandim: The Paul Myhill Interview | Blog Talk Radio)

    Second, the American Heart Association ABSOLUTELY DID NOT fund studies on Protandim. A researcher at the University of Ohio, Keith Gooch, received 2 grants from the AHA. His grant requests did not include any mention to Protandim, and AHA had no reason to consider Protandim as part of what they were giving money for. He funded 25 studies from those grants, and only ONE of those studies has any link to Protandim. It is also very important to know that the study that DID use Protandim WAS NOT STUDYING PROTANDIM. It was looking at the effects of ANTIOXIDANTS on the heart tissue. (IIRC.) Protandim happened to be the antioxidant supplement used, but the study was not designed to look at Protandim and it's claims specifically. It can be used as an antioxidant supplement in studies because, well, it has ingredients with antioxidant properties, which no one is disputing. However, the study was not designed to look at Protandim and it's efficacy, just the effects of antioxidants.

    This is INCREDIBLY important to understand. Money that was given by AHA might have eventually funneled down into a study that used Protandim, but AHA was not aware that it would be so, nor was the study designed to look at Protandim. To trot the name of the American Heart Association out is deceitful and misleading, and is quite enough for me to never trust this company again. They purposefully use the name because it has credibility and those who hear it will think "Wow, this must really be something if AHA supports it." So let's be clear: AHA did NOT knowingly fund or commission a study on this overpriced vitamin supplement. And, again, in my opinion, this deceitful marketing strategy is enough for me to close the door on this company completely.

    Most of LifeVantage's science is based on two things: Correlation and animal/test tube studies. It would be INCREDIBLY easy to do placebo controlled, double blind human studies. They have MORE than enough money to do it. WHY AREN'T THEY DOING IT? If this supplement really is the life saving, disease preventing miracle that they claim, WHY NOT DO THE STUDIES? If it really is SO AMAZING, why aren't more doctors jumping on board the Protandim team? Why isn't this being hailed as a major scientific breakthrough, instead of all the hogwash about "you can't patent a supplement" (false) or other excuses they give?

    I believe there are only 2 human studies done on Protandim, and Protandim doesn't publish the second one because IT SHOWED THAT IT DIDN'T WORK AT ALL. (I've previously read that that study showed it actually performed WORSE than the placebo, but I can't find that right at the moment.) In the one they do tell you about, the study originally had 30 participants, but they only report data from 10 subjects. It's vital that you also know that some of the subjects of the trial were investors or distributors for LifeVantage. If you don't think that it's not a GIANT red flag that people who stand to make a lot of money WERE THE SUBJECTS of the clinical trial, well, I'm not sure anything is going to convince you. Vitamin C supplements are also known to improve TBAR values. Can you promise me that those who had a financial interest in the outcome didn't also do other things known to improve those levels? So much deceit and bad science here.

    What I'm most baffled by is their synergy claim. Really? REALLY? There's an EXACT ratio that makes it a bigger, better, more effective product than another combination of the same ingredients? I don't believe that. I really, truly don't. It sounds like complete hokum to me.

    I don't doubt that there are positive effects that people experience when they take this supplement. I'm sure the claims that it has helped people's long plaguing illnesses and pain better. But I also believe you can get the same positive effects by buying the same herbs in bulk and saving yourself 90% (or more) of the ticket price.

    Say what you want, but MLM is never a good sign. (What follows is my opinion, but I believe it's fairly valid.) I believe MLM is used in instances like this for one major reason: because the company is legally bound by what it can say and not say. LiveVantage can't go around saying "This will cure/prevent cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc." But what they can do is hold rallies/conventions and say *everything but* those exact words. They take success stories and trot them out at these meetings and hold them up as examples. I know one severely epileptic little girl who is being hailed as a miracle because of this product. She was very ill, in ICU, being treated for liver failure and other complications due to her medication regime. They added Protandim. After a while, she improved. Of course, LifeVantage is taking all the credit. Nevermind the facts that she was IN A HOSPITAL, being treated by DOCTORS, with MEDICATION when she got better. Nope, it must be these magical herbs!! So now her mom is a spokesperson and others use her story to sell the product. Now, LifeVantage can't put her face on the bottle and claim that they fixed it, but they can hint at it and get their reps all excited and let THEM go around making these claims. The company maintains PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY and stays out of legal trouble, all the while their minions are out there making the claims for them.

    People are making A TON of money off of this cheap supplement that you can absolutely make at home for barely a fraction of the cost by ordering the components themselves. There has been plenty of time now for outside researchers to look into and study Protandim on their own, but no one has. All studies can be traced back to LifeVantage in one way or another. If this truly were the life saving, life changing product they tout it as, I promise you that by now many more companies and doctors would be interested and involved in it.

    So I'm not going to say that there aren't positive benefits from Protandim, but I will say you shouldn't buy it unless you have tons and tons of money you are purposefully flushing down the toilet. You could save well over 90% of the cost just by finding these ingredients and taking them yourself. You'll see the same benefits, but you'll save yourself a ton of money. Don't kid yourself- people absolutely are getting rich off of this. The money you fork over isn't going to R&D, it isn't going to make the product, it's going to make other people rich. For a company that claims to be all about health and wellness, that's a pretty crappy reality.

  10. #40
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    Don't buy this stuff, please.

    First, it's MLM, that should immediately throw off a red flag.

    But, it also has ZERO proof it's actually good for you. Short, tiny studies mean NOTHING when talking about a daily use supplement that you are expected to take for a long period. In fact, these pills could actually be BAD for you in the long run. (There is a a case to be made that too many anti-oxidants is a BAD thing.)

    Take some turmeric daily and eat blueberries. Throw in a couple squares of dark chocolate. Way cheaper and more enjoyable...with tons of data backing up their positive effects.

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