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Thread: Accelerating fat loss - carbs < 50g per day page 3

  1. #21
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    Hi atc, sorry to hijack your thread but I see you're in Berkshire - where do you train weightlifting?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by yodiewan View Post
    Wow! Awesome explanation MalPaz!



    Could you explain further how carb cycling works metabolically/hormonally?
    haha well you gotta check out lyle's stuff for that.... this is what i know...

    To shift the body out of ketosis and toward a more anabolic state, dieters will need to begin
    consuming carbohydrates approximately 5 hours prior to the final workout. At this time, a small
    amount of carbohydrates, perhaps 25 to 50 grams, can be consumed along with some protein and unsaturated fats, to begin the upregulation of liver enzymes. The type of carbohydrate needed has not been studied and individuals are encouraged to experiment with different types and amounts of foods.
    Approximately 2 hours before the final workout, a combination of glucose and fructose
    (with optional glutamine) should be consumed, to refill liver glycogen. Once again, specific
    amounts have not been determined but 25 to 50 grams total carbohydrate would seem a good
    place to start.

    Nutrient intake

    During the first 24 hours of carb-loading, carbohydrate intake should be 10 grams per
    kilogram of lean body mass or 4.5 grams of carbs per pound of lean body mass . This will
    represent 70% of the total calories consumed. The remaining calories are divided evenly between
    fat (15% of total calories) and protein (15% of total calories). Table 2 gives estimated amounts of
    carbohydrate, protein and fat for various amounts of lean body mass.
    During the second 24 hours of carb-loading, carbohydrates will make up 60% of the total calories,
    protein 25% and fat 15% as shown in table 3.

    Summary of guidelines for glycogen supercompensation on the CKD

    1. -5 hours prior to your final workout before the carb-up, consume 25-50 grams of carbohydrate
    with some protein to begin the shift out of ketosis. Small amounts of protein and fat may be
    added to this meal.
    2. -2 hours prior to the final workout, consume 25-50 grams of glucose and fructose (such as fruit)
    to refill liver glycogen.
    3. -The level of glycogen resynthesis depends on the duration of the carb-up and the amount of
    carbohydrates consumed. In 24 hours, glycogen levels of 100-110 mmol/kg can be achieved as
    long as 10 grams carb/kg lean body mass are consumed. During the second 24 hours of carbing,
    an intake of 5 grams/kg lean body mass is recommended.
    4.- During the first 24 hours, the macronutrient ratios should be 70% carbs, 15% protein and 15%
    fat. During the second 24 hours, the ratios are roughly 60% carbs, 25% protein and 15% fat.
    5. -As long as sufficient amounts of carbohydrate are consumed, the type and timing of intake is
    relatively less important. However, some data suggests the higher glycogen levels can be
    attained over 24 hours, if higher Glycemic Index (GI) carbs are consumed. If carbing is continued
    past 24 hours, lower GI foods should be consumed.
    Assuming full depletion, which requires a variable amount of training depending on the
    length of the carb-up, glycogen levels can be refilled to normal within 24 hours, assuming that
    carbohydrate consumption is sufficient. With longer or shorter carb-loading periods, muscle
    glycogen levels can reach higher or lower levels respectively.

    During the initial 24 hours of carb-loading, a carbohydrate intake of 8-10 grams of carbs
    per kilogram of lean body mass will refill muscle glycogen to normal levels. Although less well
    researched, it appears that a carbohydrate intake of roughly 5 grams/kg lean body mass is
    appropriate. While the type of carbohydrate ingested during the first 24 hours of carb-loading is
    less critical, it is recommended that lower GI carbs be consumed during the second 24 hours to
    avoid fat regain. The addition of other nutrients to the carb-load phase does not appear to affect
    glycogen resynthesis rates. However fat intake must be limited somewhat to avoid fat gain.
    It is currently unknown how the insertion of a carb-loading phase will affect the
    adaptations to ketosis. As well, no long term data exists on the metabolic effects which are seen.
    Therefore it can not be recommended that the CKD be followed indefinitely and a more ?balanced?
    diet should be undertaken as soon as one?s goals are achieved.

    A question which is asked is whether the carb-load is anabolic, stimulating muscle growth
    while dieting. As muscle growth requires an overall anabolic metabolism, the body must be
    shifted out of ketosis (which is catabolic) during the carb-load. This requires that liver
    metabolism be shifted away from ketone production, which necessitates both an increase in
    certain enzymes as well as a refilling of liver glycogen. Therefore the carb-load really begins
    about 5 hours prior to the final workout when a small amount of carbohydrates should be
    consumed to begin upregulating liver enzymes. Approximately 2 hours prior to the workout, a
    combination of glucose and fructose should be consumed to refill liver glycogen. Glutamine is an
    optional addition that may increase liver glycogen levels.

    There are a number of ways that the carb-load might affect muscle growth. The primary
    mechanism is by increasing insulin and amino acid availability. The second is by increasing
    cellular hydration levels. Both have the potential to increase protein synthesis while decreasing
    protein breakdown.

    Ultimately the question must be asked as to just how much new muscle can be
    synthesized during a carb-up of 24 to 48 hours. Even assuming zero muscle breakdown during
    the ketogenic week, the amount of new muscle synthesized is likely to be small. So while
    individuals may gain a small amount of muscle during a CKD, it should not be expected or
    counted on.

  3. #23
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  4. #24
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    the post i just did on carb cycling i got from some body building forum... where i get most my knowledge, those guys know what theyre doing

  5. #25
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    thanks for the posts MalPaz!
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
    Yes, this is a frequently debated topic. I am more on the side of calories in calories out based on my experience. I would love to be able to eat 3000 calories per day, but I would be obese if I did. I found my maintenance level of around 1900-2000 calories per day, and in order to lose weight, I have to hit about 1600-1700. That's even with half my calories being fat and only getting around 50-100g carbs per day. Everyone is different.
    I have also read that simply restricting carbs stops working at a certain point. Thanks MalPaz for the explanation of the theory of why this is so. I've seen recommendations that you start your diet by reducing carbs but reducing calories by only about 500 or so, then slowly ramp the calories downward.

  7. #27
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    Wow, great work Mal. You rock! I have nothing to add but I find sweet potatoes to be great for carb cycling.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemonized View Post
    Wow, great work Mal. You rock! I have nothing to add but I find sweet potatoes to be great for carb cycling.
    me too as they are the only thing i can eat lots of without so much bloat...the winter squashes come with SOOOOO much water that 1/2 an acorn squash has me lying on my bed unable to get in a breath!

  9. #29
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    daemonized can you explain this to me???

    with a keto based carb cycle diet, insulin's role will be prioritized to filling muscular glycogen stores before the chance for adipose tissue to respond arises...I'll just have to be careful to stick to omega 3 and 6 fats on carbups since they are extremely difficult to store as fat even in a high insulin environment

  10. #30
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    this is pretty interesting too

    btw: here is something from Di Pascales book on Amino Acids (I mentioned that before)
    QUOTE
    As mentioned above in the discussion on insulin, we have seen that one of insulin’s actions is to
    increase microvascular (nutritive) perfusion of muscle, which is enhanced by exercise.66,67 This
    enhancement is crucial to maximize the anabolic effects of exercise and targeted nutrition.
    For example, a recent review looked at the effects of insulin on the vascular system and on
    nutrient delivery to muscle.68 The paper points out the fact that there are two flow routes in muscle:
    one in intimate contact with the muscle cells (myocytes) and able to exchange nutrients and
    hormones freely and thus regarded as nutritive, and a second with essentially no contact with
    myocytes and regarded as nonnutritive (felt to provide blood to muscle connective tissue and
    adjacent fat cells, but not muscle cells).
    The point here is that in the absence of increases in bulk flow to muscle, say after a training
    session, insulin may act to switch flow from nonnutritive to the nutritive route. This capillary
    recruitment results in an increase in nutritive blood flow so that muscles that have been stressed and
    are undergoing an adaptive response will have what they need to recover and grow.
    This information is another piece of the anabolic puzzle. Putting it all together can give us ways
    to dramatically improve body composition—increase muscle mass and decrease body fat. In my
    view, the best way to do this is to figure out ways to increase the potent anabolic effects of insulin,
    both on nutritive delivery to the muscle cells and into the muscle cells, while at the same time
    minimizing the undesirable effects on body fat.
    One of these ways is to increase insulin in a pulsed manner along with an increase in amino acid
    availability, but minimal carbohydrates, at the times when the body is primed for growth and repair,
    for example, in that window of opportunity that exists for several hours after training. It would also
    be desirable to increase GH and IGF-I levels at the same time as insulin, in order to further enhance
    the anabolic effects of insulin and decrease, and actually reverse, the undesirable effects of insulin
    on fat metabolism.
    The bottom line is that the key to maximizing body composition, and to increase performance in
    fat-adapted athletes is to keep carbohydrates low and energy and protein intake high for several
    hours or even more after exercise.
    There are also reasons for fat-adapted athletes to keep carbohydrate levels low before and during
    exercise, as we have already seen.

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