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  1. #11
    cillakat's Avatar
    cillakat is offline Senior Member
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    Here is another bugaboo for me:

    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?page_id=8
    The exception is white rice, which we count among our “safe starches.” Rice noodles, rice crackers, and the like are fine.
    That is a statement that requires clarification each and every time it's made. They do make that clarification at times, but not each time and it's going to be a major problem simply because the average person reading the book is going to read that white rice and processed white rice products are fine 'in general' and will be eating much more than is acceptable.

    1)white rice intake must be counted as part of the 400 cals or less intake.....this number drops to 200 cals or less if trying to loose weight

    2)white rice is the least nutritious of the starches calorie for calorie - if nutrient density is important and starches are required, pick another starch. If nutrient density is important and starches are *not* required, pick dark and bright non-starchy veggies instead.

    3) for those struggling with blood sugar issues, binge eating or compulsive overeating, even small amounts of white rice, rice crackers or other processed rice products may (are likely to?) trigger problems.

    My personal feeling is that white rice is a Very Bad Idea for many (most?) and a reasonable addition to the diet of those needing additional starch cals for intensive athletics....though tubers would be preferable to the rice.



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  2. #12
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    Agree on the rice, partly because I don't like it much. To be honest I haven't eaten any in however many months so I have no idea if it would cause cravings or not! Pasta seems gross now too. Why bother? I'd much rather have squash or pumpkin or sweet potatoes. Or potatoes. Well, Jaminet ran in to trouble with very low carb so that's their bias, I guess.

    And yes, Mercola seems to be a bit of a loon.

  3. #13
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    That is my main criticism. High fat, low protein, moderate carb but a bunch of it can be white rice? This looks like a food + 20 pills diet.
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

  4. #14
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    I like the refreshing intellectual clarity of most of the book. There's not a bunch of hand waving and rhetoric about disproving high carb diets. They just say - a high carb diet IS a high fat diet, but with a bunch of stress on the liver in between. Those big strong cows the vegans love to rave about? They eat short chain FATs via their buggies in the rumen. Another enlightening point was how folks on high carb diets may need more dietary PUFAs (and that may be why the studies are not as shockingly horrible as we might expect), simply because high carb diet people get a stressball full of sat fats with every meal via palmitic acid from glucose, and high fat diet people will be getting PUFAs with the fat in their food.

    However, there is that disconnect - our diets are nutrient poor because we don't move around enough in general to eat enough calories to get all our nutrients - and then the recommendation for white rice, whose main positive is that it is not frankly toxic. It is a nice option for variety, in my opinion, little more.

    I do like that they have the nutritional science really dialed in. Shows their lack of corruption by medical degrees or nutrition degrees.

  5. #15
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    Oh, and Cillakat - his recommendations for vit D are a bit lower than the vitamin D council guys, but I wonder if that has to do with perfect health diet (or primal diet) being anti-inflammatory and grain free, so you don't need as much vitamin D? A doctor was telling me the other day about a study showing that high vitamin D without calcium supplementation resulted in calcium being taken from non-weight bearing bones, like the jaw. For the life of me, I cannot find this study or any iteration thereof. I have a feeling it has to do with K2 deficiency or something else, as it seems more and more obvious that calcium supplementation is not a great idea. Anyway!

    All told - really liked the book, it has room to be dialed in a little more, and it would probably be the diet I followed if I were pregnant or breastfeeding. Downsides - I prefer Kurt Harris' no counting approach (life is too short to count), and our ancestors didn't have fit day.
    Last edited by Bisous; 09-14-2010 at 06:22 AM.

  6. #16
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    Thank you very much, SerialSinner, for starting this thread, and thanks to all those here who bought the book.

    I'm very pleased to hear your comments. Everyone who has emailed me has said only nice things, and it's nice to hear a more diverse set of reactions.

    Cillakat, fructose is discussed extensively in Step Two, removal of food toxins. In Step One, about macronutrient ratios, we only mention it in a sentence or two. Perhaps the order of the Steps should have been reversed, but that's how we did it.

    I'm curious what you think of the vitamin D discussion in Step Three.

    Bisous, thanks for all the compliments. I agree about calorie counting, we don't recommend that, except for 3-4 days until you get an idea of portion sizes for carbs. In the final version we have a few pictures to help out with that.

    We have added a calcium section to the final version, but most of the content is in a blog post here: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=415. I also have never seen a calcium study like the one you mention.

    About rice, I think it has a lot of benefits in practical diets. It is easy to make, cheap, and it comes in pasta forms so you can make rice spaghetti and rice lasagna which a lot of people like to eat, also rice crackers. The risk of going over our upper carb limit I think is relatively low. Rice is not addictive like wheat, and it is also very bulky -- though only 1/3 lb provides 400 calories, 1/3 lb of cooked rice is very bulky and looks like a lot to people. So I think most people will not overdose on rice.

    It's true that getting carb calories from sweet potatoes will provide more nutrition and fiber, and those who want to super-optimize may wish to avoid rice for other starch sources. But we're writing for a broad audience, many of whom are pressed for time with busy lives, and rice is likely to make a healthful contribution to their diet.

    Best, Paul

  7. #17
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    I'm really excited to check this out. My dh and ds eat along these lines. Ds eats mostly primal (but no dairy) plus rice. He doesn't eat it every day, but 3x a week at least. I prefer to avoid rice (and stay primal/mostly paleo) but have not tried to force him to cut it out/be strictly primal. He's 3, and eats lots of veggies, meats and other goodies so I'm ok w/ it...

    I find cooking it in bone broth makes me feel a lot better about giving it to him--really ups the nutrient density for sure! (Still not a primal food IMO, but I'm really interested to read more on *why* it's a 'safe starch' in some folks' opinions...b/c it has the antinutrients etc stripped, and is just a bunch of empty starchy carbs? Hmmm... Kurt Harris also mentioned it as being along the same lines as potatoes in a post I believe...Interesting stuff.)

  8. #18
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    The truly terrible part of grains is the lectins, saponins, and especially gluten. But white rice has been stripped of that stuff so it is essentially just poor nutrition and some carbs. Peeled potatoes are the same except with better nutrition, and I think that they taste better, but some people who are really into cooking may still be partial to rice.

    It is funny how CW considers white rice and white bread to be worse than brown. I disagree
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stabby View Post
    The truly terrible part of grains is the lectins, saponins, and especially gluten. But white rice has been stripped of that stuff so it is essentially just poor nutrition and some carbs.
    Thanks for the details Stabby. I've always wondered if it would be better for him if I sprouted brown rice prior to cooking or just gave him white rice. I'm still uncertain on it, although w/ his gut issues, I'm thinking white is the way to go no matter what. He doesn't do it every day (and I'm glad a/b that) and its always along side some other much more nutrient dense and primal foods, which I'm also glad for.

  10. #20
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    Stabby, that is so interesting about the white rice. Personally I dont really miss having rice at all - it used to bloat me terribly - its a nothing food, but I do like rice crackers for something crispy to put my nibbles on, and I've been feeling somewhat guilty about them - I suppose the biggest baddie about them is probably the PUFA's that they may be baked in? So standard rice crackers might actually be better than wholegrain rice crackers I've been buying?

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