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Thread: On Veganism and Ethics (Guardian Article) page

  1. #1
    Darrin's Avatar
    Darrin is offline Senior Member
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    On Veganism and Ethics (Guardian Article)

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    Hey all.

    Just stumbled across a really cool article on The Guardian website that I think many of you would enjoy. Although I respect anyone's decision to become veg*n for spiritual or ethical reasons, it only really works if they realize it is a personal choice rather than a universal one. Here's an article by a former vegan champion who admits that much of the evidence pushed for this agenda is horribly skewed from reality. Enjoy!
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  2. #2
    chronyx's Avatar
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    Great article.

    I'd like to support sustainable farming more than just buying the products. Not sure if it's possible to invest in farms/schemes; that would be cool.

  3. #3
    periquin's Avatar
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    Some good ideas in that paper about how to alter the meat industry. No grains required, just feed them things that humans don't want and that they are designed to eat. Of course, I am not one of the humans that would want the grains that aren't 'wasted' on animals.

    Chronyx, support sustainable farming by growing a few things of your own. Even just a few cloves of garlic, maybe some lettuce. If no garden area google self watering containers made from two five gallon buckets and a 3 foot tube.

  4. #4
    Stabby's Avatar
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    If veganism was ever to have any sensible ethical implications it would have been with regards to environmental impact that affects humans, but it turns out that it doesn't really, not any more than washing our clothes or taking showers, or turning the heat up a bit in our homes. And I think the real challenge is learning how to do things more efficiently, except for reproducing since that seems to be the main problem in the first place.

    It doesn't matter how many times vegans assert it, an animal's life means nothing unless one arbitrarily assigns value to it; whereas I would argue that a human's life should have unconditional value to all humans who wish for any sort of rights from other humans. A human's actions towards an animal has no bearing on the well-being of himself beyond his own emotions and so beyond his own emotional reasons there is no justification for any manner of treatment - it is all arbitrary. Humans need to behave in ways that they expect others to behave towards them and it is in the influencing of the behavior of others that ethics is grounded, not in arbitrary and ethereal sentiments about harm to creatures who are irrelevant to their lives besides having usefulness as a pet, food, or to gawk at in the zoo. If you rank an animal's life higher or anywhere approaching the value of a human's dinner then you are confused and should kindly f-off and keep it to yourself. Vegan evangelists are an unnecessary bane on humanity with the most convoluted conception of ethics and the most muddled application of it.

    Oh except don't harm this raccoon. I am an acting moral agent after all, I can stab and/or cooperate with people, as is the prerequisite to be a moral agent.
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  5. #5
    fitmom's Avatar
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    Vegangelicals are a peeve of mine. I think that there is a full moral spectrum, in three dimensions, regarding our food choices. Buying conventional produce out of season supports a system of underpaid, pesticide-exposed workers. Saving an animal--maybe. But doing so at the expense of exploited human workers and poisonous farming--not so ethical either.
    Massive soy, wheat and corn farms--and chicken and beef and pork CAFOs, too--are killing diversity and the family farm.
    I don't know of any sane human who could walk in my backyard and say that I'm exploiting my chickens for their eggs--or that those eggs are of a lower moral caliber than GMO soy--or even organic wheat trucked to a factory, repurposed as crackers and sold at the health food store. Ditto with local grassfed beef and pastured pork. I think there are so many deeper issues surrounding biodiversity and soil health.
    Anyone who thinks veganism is a simple answer to envionmental/moral issues needs to ramp up their saturated fat intake, so their brain cells have more structural integrity!

  6. #6
    geekgrrl's Avatar
    geekgrrl is offline Senior Member
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    oh good stuff. I've been so frustrated with shoddy data on agriculture, and the co-opting of meat as a green issue instead of simply reducing waste and improving production systems. I've shared and tagged this article every which way!

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