Kosher and primal page 2

[bob]

I second liza's challah recommendation. We still make challah every Friday, but my wife and I only have a bite; the rest goes for the kids's sandwiches (so the kids are at about 70/30).

And thank you so much for taking the time to expand on your feelings; I now understand from where your frustration comes. Thank you also for identifying some of the issues I may encounter. Fortunately, after posting the 30 Day Challenge as my facebook status, one of my shul-friends starting reading and is really motivated to go primal; in fact, he wants our families to get together to enter the grokfest picnic contest!

I remember the "dairy" out or "veg/fish" dish out when I kept kosher and went out to restaurants. And I remember those feelings that you encounter of being deprived, especially on those late night college trips to In'n'Out or Tommy's Burgers (an L.A. thing) - no double-doubles or chili-cheeseburgers for me.

I also share your frustration with our community when it comes to bad food choices. I used to live near a kosher grilled fish restaurant in an orthodox/hassidic dominated neighborhood at which I would eat every Sunday. I was in disbelief when I would see these overweight, inactive families eating together. I was happy that they were getting at least one healthy meal (the restaurant just served grilled fish, israeli salad, and french fries or rice).

May you all have an easy fast tomorrow/Saturday.

[liza]

I start to understand more of the frustration. All of my friends and family who are observant kosher just tell those on the outside that they're vegetarian; it works (there are many vegetarians here; they're indulged, even if not understood). They can eat at peoples' homes, can go out to restaurants (clearly they're not frum, that would be a whole different problem). But they're not trying to combine kosher with primal.

We live in an area that has a big enough Jewish population that it's not weird or unknown, but it's a highly assimilated population; lots of one Jewish parent, one not, etc. There's no large kosher supermarket such as labbygail talked about, so the processed food issue doesn't come up. Just some thoughts. . . comments?

Wishing you all an easy fast.

[liza]

This is getting dangerous; I'm thinking too much about the kosher/primal dichotomy, so want to verbalize some thoughts and get your reactions.

If you're negotiating within the kosher-world (synagogue, etc.) you only need to eliminate grains, sugars, refined foods, etc. Dairy meals include fish, cheese, eggs, and the like; meat meals include meat, so you can find appropriate things to eat whether it's a dairy or meat meal.

In the outer world, vegetarian meals are grain based in a way that they're not in kosher dairy meals, so it can be more of a problem. Comments?

[strom]

Eggs are parve.

[labbygail]

Vegetarian meals are grain-based whether they're kosher or not. The only difference is that to Jews, a "vegetarian" meal almost always includes fish. Thank God.

[gini]

I don't keep kosher, but my mom does (and we're Italkim, so the rules are even weirder) and I may have a couple of answers to your questions.

-Challah. It's practically a mitzvah to eat challah, and I loooooove it. I know non-Jews have dietary rituals and holidays too, but they don't have a religious requirement to eat bread. Since I'm not good at "moderation," it really derails me. Some people will have no problem with this being part of their 20%.

Challah: so have a little piece of challah on Friday nights. Make it your 20%. It's not that big a deal. Just don't eat the whole damn thing.

-While we don't eat out at restaurants a lot, we do eat out at other people's homes a lot, or at the synagogue. Those are the main times I have trouble because I feel left out of the community when I can't eat their food. Sure they'll make me food I can eat, but keeping kosher is about being part of a community who all eat the same way, and now it feels like I've placed myself outside the community.

What are people eating that you can't eat? For Rosh Hashana this year, here is what was served at the house I attended:
chopped liver with pickles, served with crackers: I ate mine with a spoon instead.
Challah, apples and honey: I ate a little bit of all of these. Happy new year, after all!
squash ravioli in sage brown butter sauce: I took the insides out of the ravioli and ate the squash in brown butter.
Braised chicken in raisins and almonds: totally primal! Yay! I'll have two.
potato pea curry: I had some of this. Potatoes once in a while aren't so bad.
saffron rice: no thanks!
apple torte for dessert: I brought some dark chocolate balls and shared.
Red wine: yes please!

What I'm saying is...you can make due. Eat what you can eat and if you absolutely can't find something to eat, think of the meal as "doing the best I can".

-A lot of people who keep kosher eat "dairy out" (like me). When we go to a restaurant, the only thing I can order is grilled fish and veggies. Delicious, and keeps me from having to bother with the menu, but it does contribute to feeling deprived.

-Depending on how liberal your synagogue is, you may run into vegetarians or near-vegetarians who believe that kashrut was intended as a concession to humans' desire to eat meat. I get into arguments with these folks.

Don't feel deprived! Fish and veggies: so delicious. Change things up: have an appetizer and a salad instead. Play around.
Why do you need to argue with them about their beliefs (other than the fact that you're Jewish and we like to argue)? Abstain.

Cook with butter, cook with oil, eat meat and veggies. Eat fish and veggies. It's better than Passover because you don't have to eat that constipating crap anymore. Hurrah!

[labbygail]

Gini, you have such a positive attitude :-). There is almost always something I can eat, too, even if I have to bring it myself, but I have never in my life been one to turn down food if it is offered or even there. (Actually, I have plenty of practice in turning down non-kosher food, but that's different because I stick to that almost 100%, and I'm not ready to be that strict with Primal.) Anyway, I admire the way you see the glass as half-full, making do as best as you can and just enjoying the food.

I know, challah is okay, 20%, yadda yadda, but for some reason one little piece does sometimes derail my self-control. I think it's because it has the aura of "forbidden," but I'm "allowed" it. I guess I should start a primal journal if I want to do any more navel-gazing than that.

I'm curious, what are the rules for Italkim?

[rosasharon]

is anyone still around on this thread?

[labbygail]

is anyone still around on this thread?

Yep. I don't check most of the forum messages, but your message caught my eye because kosher and primal is a bit of a "niche market."

[rosasharon]

Yep. I don't check most of the forum messages, but your message caught my eye because kosher and primal is a bit of a "niche market."

that it is, labbygail! i'm still feeling my way through the transition, especially as i was a 24/6 vegetarian (meat/chicken only on shabbat or holidays) most of the time. it's kind of strange to think about chicken for work lunches now

looking forward,
S