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Thread: So close! Yet so far away... "Why Carbohydrates Are So Important in Diabetes" page

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    Jenny's Avatar
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    So close! Yet so far away... "Why Carbohydrates Are So Important in Diabetes"

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    Just spotted this article:
    http://www.health.com/health/conditi...kw=outbrain-ha
    "Why Carbohydrates Are So Important in Diabetes"

    Aside from the percent of calories bit, everything it says seems to jive with the primal concept, but they stop just short of actually defining things here:
    "Some carbs are better than others
    The goal is now to maximize intake of the good stuff—vitamins, minerals, and fiber—and minimize carbohydrates that boost blood sugar too much, offer few nutritional benefits, or are packed with fat and calories."

    In other words, when you do eat carbs... eat carbs with max with vitamins and minerals and fiber (vegetables and fruit) and minimize those that offer few nutritional benefits (grains!)

    But do they SAY the bits in parentheses there? No. Argh.
    "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

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    kind of ironic that they have an advertisement just to the left of the article selling a book called, "The carb lovers diet" with a pizza on the cover

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    You would think that people trying to manage a serious disease would pay more attention to the available research. I wonder what they have to say about Cordain's paper on grain/legume toxins and diabetes http://thepaleodiet.blogspot.com/201...dotoxemia.html
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stabby View Post
    You would think that people trying to manage a serious disease would pay more attention to the available research. I wonder what they have to say about Cordain's paper on grain/legume toxins and diabetes http://thepaleodiet.blogspot.com/201...dotoxemia.html
    1. What makes you think they (I should say "we") don't?
    2. What makes you think it's easy to find and understand?
    3. What makes you think there aren't a slew of contradictory studies out there?
    4. I trust my doctor. He's very conventional. Thankfully, he's so conventional that he figures most people will eat what they decide to eat and his efforts are better spent doing what conventional doctors do (quite true), and has not as yet tried to influence my diet. Would you suggest that people trying to manage a serious disease ignore their doctors, who have presumably sifted through the difficult and conflicting information?

    I'm not saying people shouldn't do their research; they should; some don't try; some give up; some trust the wrong research for good reasons; and the research is not complete, and there are volumes of it, and there is more every day.

    What I am saying is that you might want to watch your assumptions about people trying to manage a serious disease.

    (I am wondering if you would take the same tone if the disease in question were one considered "blameless" by society, for example, breast cancer.)

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    It is easy to find and understand, it just takes a little honesty and intellectual integrity. When someone is dying they should have all the time and effort in the world to find a solution and to find the best solution. There is contradictory information, but the key is of course learning how to discern a good argument from a bad one, recognizing a fallacy, learning the science etc (although if they have a neuro-degenerative disease I give them a pass!) It takes a while but especially in the case of medical practitioners and highly educated people it should be apparent. People should do their own research, too, regardless of what their doctor says. It's really not hard and people should, like, be smarter. People should be more skeptical and less complacent and trusting, they should challenge everything and then challenge their challenge for good measure. They should seek out every angle of a debate and give all sources equal weight and never quit learning and revising their positions. They should research their asses off and if they don't then they are fools. It's not hard; anyone can get to the heart of any of these degenerative diseases, it just takes an openness to new information and basic reasoning skills that should be fundamental to everyone, although they often aren't and that is a good debate to have - whether people are culpable for their own ignorance. If they're doing the low fat grain thing then they should be seeking out the opposition's claims too. I did the low fat grain/bean thing for a while and thought it was balls, especially when I started reading Dr. Mercola and watching Sean Croxton. And then I thought that some of what they say was balls, and now I think that some of what Mark and Gary Taubes says is balls too. It is about skepticism first and foremost and if we are always challenging our current conception of truth then we will tend to move closer to truth.

    And breast cancer isn't blameless. No cancer is blameless unless you get massive chemical toxicity. Cancer is basically nutrient deficiencies, eicosanoids, insulin levels + carcinogens, free radicals and some other stuff, and it is all on pubmed somewhere.
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stabby View Post
    It is easy to find and understand, it just takes a little honesty and intellectual integrity. When someone is dying they should have all the time and effort in the world to find a solution and to find the best solution. There is contradictory information, but the key is of course learning how to discern a good argument from a bad one, recognizing a fallacy, learning the science etc (although if they have a neuro-degenerative disease I give them a pass!) It takes a while but especially in the case of medical practitioners and highly educated people it should be apparent. People should do their own research, too, regardless of what their doctor says. It's really not hard and people should, like, be smarter. People should be more skeptical and less complacent and trusting, they should challenge everything and then challenge their challenge for good measure. They should seek out every angle of a debate and give all sources equal weight and never quit learning and revising their positions. They should research their asses off and if they don't then they are fools. It's not hard; anyone can get to the heart of any of these degenerative diseases, it just takes an openness to new information and basic reasoning skills that should be fundamental to everyone, although they often aren't and that is a good debate to have - whether people are culpable for their own ignorance. If they're doing the low fat grain thing then they should be seeking out the opposition's claims too. I did the low fat grain/bean thing for a while and thought it was balls, especially when I started reading Dr. Mercola and watching Sean Croxton. And then I thought that some of what they say was balls, and now I think that some of what Mark and Gary Taubes says is balls too. It is about skepticism first and foremost and if we are always challenging our current conception of truth then we will tend to move closer to truth.

    And breast cancer isn't blameless. No cancer is blameless unless you get massive chemical toxicity. Cancer is basically nutrient deficiencies, eicosanoids, insulin levels + carcinogens, free radicals and some other stuff, and it is all on pubmed somewhere.
    Wow.

    Hopefully your arrogance and self-righteousness will carry you through any crises you may meet with in life.

    Good luck to you.

  7. #7
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    I'm not exactly sure what's wrong with most of what Stabby said? I'd say it's pretty smart in general to research these things yourself when it comes to your health and a serious illness. If changing your diet is how you manage a disease it's pretty prudent to do so. Just because a doctor figures no one will actually do this doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt to get a person to change if it'll help them. Many people do eat themselves to Type II diabetes and certainly obesity among other illnesses. Should a doctor not even discuss diet as a possible solution because a patient will just refuse to change his habits? That's ridiculous. It might not be quite as easy to understand as he makes it out to be when reading studies, but it's certainly a starting place. Most of us here have had experiences where we know a doctor isn't up on current research or is completely misinformed. That's why a good number of people don't always take what a doctor has to say at face value.

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    gottaluvalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardotmnt View Post
    I'm not exactly sure what's wrong with most of what Stabby said? I'd say it's pretty smart in general to research these things yourself when it comes to your health and a serious illness. If changing your diet is how you manage a disease it's pretty prudent to do so. Just because a doctor figures no one will actually do this doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt to get a person to change if it'll help them. Many people do eat themselves to Type II diabetes and certainly obesity among other illnesses. Should a doctor not even discuss diet as a possible solution because a patient will just refuse to change his habits? That's ridiculous. It might not be quite as easy to understand as he makes it out to be when reading studies, but it's certainly a starting place. Most of us here have had experiences where we know a doctor isn't up on current research or is completely misinformed. That's why a good number of people don't always take what a doctor has to say at face value.
    Thank God I have a doctor that doesn't tell me what to eat anymore. For 30 years all they did was make me fat.

    Nothing wrong and everything right about researching. But to think it's easy and that diabetics as a class of people just don't give a shit or have no sense or are ignoring research is to a tad... well...

    I think I've said my peace.

    I'll let ya'll go back to your business of being better than everyone else.

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    Adjusting the diet was the FIRST thing my wife's doctor did when she became pre diabetic, and I think highly of him for it. Also, it worked.
    She is now insulin dependant because of a number of factors, including reversion to old eating habits / no exercise, and a minor emergency clinic hitting her with TWO steroidal medications at the same time, both known to elevate blood glucose.
    Giving someone a pill or shot is a treatment, education is the prevention and potential cure.
    A doctor who doesn't try to get his patients to make lifestyle changes because they seldom do is not, in my opinion, a good doctor, because he is only treating the symptoms, rather than trying to heal the underlying cause
    Of course, it's not entirely the Doctor's fualt, either, as the medical schools in this country are controlled by big pharma, who is only interested in selling more drugs.
    Thank god my wife's doctor sent her to an educator that wasn't a CW tool, and told her (mostly) the truth about diet and it's effects on the endocrine system.
    Your Doc telling you how to eat isn't a bad thing, provided he knows WTF he's talking about. Sadly, some of the Doctors she's had since DR Whited had no clue or were CW mouthpieces. We fired them, of course
    I'm not old, I'm Vintage!

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    And breast cancer isn't blameless. No cancer is blameless unless you get massive chemical toxicity. Cancer is basically nutrient deficiencies, eicosanoids, insulin levels + carcinogens, free radicals and some other stuff, and it is all on pubmed somewhere.
    Wow, your ignorance is stunning.

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