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Thread: Fatty Foods Affect Memory and Exercise page

  1. #1
    DaveFish's Avatar
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    I know Mark addressed this topic in a blog entry. I posted some comments to Tara Parker-Pope's blog entry on the NYT site yesterday. As of this morning those posts are still "awaiting moderation" even though people who have posted after me have had their comments approved.


    Here is a link to the story:


    http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/fatty-foods-affect-memory-and-exercise


    It really amazes me how hostile the reaction is to anyone who dares to challenge conventional wisdom. That is one reason I'm convinced that global warming (or climate change caused by man) is a crock. If the science behind it is as dubious as the science behind nutrition (and many indicators show that it is) then we are about to embark on a course that will be disasterous to our economy (cap and trade).


  2. #2
    Agnieszka's Avatar
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    A bit of pragmatics first: Did you by any chance include a link in your post? I find that when I do that in the comments section to the NYT, I wait longer for approval--perhaps because it trips the possible spam alert.


    The article has such a fear-mongering and thus catchy title that it's quickly become one of the most popular on the site. It infuriated me.


    P.S. Have I missed out on the memo that dictates the paleo/primal lifestyle and a certain opinion on climate change have to go together? You're the second primal who I noticed expressed this point of view in the same breath with primal convictions.


  3. #3
    DaveFish's Avatar
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    Agnieszka my first two comments to that blog did not include any links. I did post a comment this morning including a link to Mark's rebuttal.


    As for the climage change thing, I think it boils down to being skeptical of conventional wisdom. Anyone who dares to challenge Al Gore's dogma is immediately branded a flat-earther and hopeless cretin even though many well respected scientists have debunked many of the "facts" presented in An Inconvenient Truth.


    “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it’s time to pause and reflect.” - Mark Twain


  4. #4
    Agnieszka's Avatar
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    Re: paragraph 1. That's unsettling. I guess I'll wade into those waters and try to leave the comment too.


    Re: the other two graphs: Well, I'd hope the world allows for a lot more complexity than that. At least my world does.


    I resonate with the Mark Twain insight, too, but note as well that some conventional wisdom (the earth is not flat and children are rewarding but tough to raise) is there for a reason. Whether we acknowledge it or not, all of us rely on a myriad of conventional understandings to get through the day. Just because a view is that of the majority by itself should not discredit it. There's also the reality that one person's conventional wisdom is not necessarily another's. That said, I'm with you, of course, on the inanity of the anti-fat and pro-carb sanctimony.


  5. #5
    Mick's Avatar
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    Sir Robert McCarrison's experiments with rats are interesting.


    The rats fed on different diets from different parts of India in size, in general health, and in particular ailments mirrored those of the people from those different areas of India.
    [quote]

    Figure 1. Note fine physique of races (Mahratta, Sikh, Pathan) whose diets are well constituted and poor physique of those (Bengali, Madrassi) whose diets are ill-constituted. Note similar effect on rats fed on those diets. From left to right, the rats represent Sikh, Pathan, Mahratta, Goorkha, Kanarese, Bengali, Madrassi.</blockquote>


    http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/McC/McC2.jpg


    Those experiments told you a lot, because they replicated real human diets and, in each case, the effects on the rats could be correlated with the effects real-world human diets had on their consumers.


    He could also change the diets in certain ways and see what the effect was on the rats. (You couldn&#39;t ethically do that with humans.) For example, McCarrison modified the healthy Sikh diet fed to the rats:
    [quote]

    Supposing now we cut out the milk component of this diet or reduce it to a minimum, we find that disease soon begins to make its appearance, especially if at the same time we limit the consumption of fresh vegetable foods. I have repeatedly made these restrictions with the result that respiratory diseases, gastro-intestinal diseases and maladies consequent on degenerative changes in mucous membranes and other structures of the body become frequent. It is apparent, therefore, that the diet of the Sikhs is only health-promoting so long as it is consumed in its entirety. Indeed, we know that those of this race who, for whatever reason, do not consume adequate quantities of milk, milk products and fresh vegetables, do not long retain the fine physique for which the Sikhs are famous.</blockquote>


    http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/McC/McC1.html


    Those were experiments worth doing. They were also done on very large numbers of rats.


    If you can&#39;t do something more useful and interesting than was done as long ago as that, why bother at all? In order to keep drawing your salary?


  6. #6
    Catalina's Avatar
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    It looks like there is a response to most of the comments (I only read about 10). If you gave some really specific information in your comment, maybe the author/editors need to research to respond appropriately--if you made them take a thorough look, that would be a good thing. (Ever optimistic!)


    Agnieszka. . .outside of the Primal Blueprint, I don&#39;t think Primals agree on a lot of things--take a look at the Religion and Politics or Personality Types threads--we&#39;re all over the place! (Which is good--Primal diversity.) For me, I do believe the world climate is changing, but I haven&#39;t personally researched enough to know to what extent we can take responsibility for the changes (or altering it).


  7. #7
    Agnieszka's Avatar
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    Good point, Catalina. We&#39;ll see if I have any luck with the comments section.


    Hey, I&#39;m all for diversity. This too, in America as well in the science of evolution, is conventional wisdom. ;-)


  8. #8
    Mick's Avatar
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    [quote]

    Whether we acknowledge it or not, all of us rely on a myriad of conventional understandings to get through the day.
    </blockquote>


    Sure. There&#39;s such a thing as collective wisdom. It&#39;s embodied in institutions and traditional practices. (And also in technologies - see David Hume on the collective rationality involved in the design of ships.) Intellectuals always think they know better than custom. Usually they don&#39;t.


    I suppose by "conventional understandings" DaveFish didn&#39;t mean traditional wisdom (as embodied in dietary habits (particularly in highly traditional societies) and cookery practices - and, for the matter of that, in thousands of old recipes). I suppose he means what has overturned that - which is the viewpoint developed by a few arrogant intellectuals, like Ancel Keys, and brainwashed into the rest of the population by the media.


    How people used to eat when "uninstructed" by intellectuals is a vindication of collective wisdom - tradition. Of course, sometimes people couldn&#39;t eat as well as they&#39;d wish because crops failed, or herds dwindled. Sometimes money was too short; and conversely some people had too much money and spent it on luxuries and sweetmeats and damaged their health that way. But mostly they knew what to eat. (Besides modern commerce) it took intellectuals and the overturning of collective wisdom to really screw up our diet.


  9. #9
    DaveFish's Avatar
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    My comments are now out of moderation and visible on page 16. I didn&#39;t mean to imply some deep dark conspiracy because there certainly are a mix of opinions in the comments section. I was just frustrated that the comments were taking so long to see the light of day. It is the weekend after all.


    Anyway Agnieszka my skepticism of man made climate change isn&#39;t just based on the fact that it is accepted as fact by much of the scientific community. A lot of the science is based on computer models and data going back a few hundred years but the quality of much of that data is suspect, and having worked in the software industry for 25 years I don&#39;t place nearly as much faith in computer models as much of the general population appears to.


    As laymen we don&#39;t have the education in these areas and so we tend to trust the "experts" with the belief that they have our best interests at heart. I&#39;m not a conspiracy theorist by any means but I do know that Al Gore has investments in companies that stand to make a fortune if schemes like Cap and Trade are put in place.


    The fact that his carbon footprint in a year is more than mine in a lifetime (Gulfstream jets and heating systems for the pool at the mansion while paying "indulgances" in the form of carbon offsets) doesn&#39;t sit too well with me either.


    But I digress.


  10. #10
    Agnieszka's Avatar
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification


    Mick, I find the black-and-white dichotomy vilifying "intellectuals" just as misguided as the conventional nutritional wisdom. Such rebellion against convention is merely its reversal. Plus it&#39;s just not based in reality.


    The reality is that you have "intellectuals" as well as "collective wisdom" on both sides of the debate. Dr. Cordain, Drs. Eades, the award-winning journalist Gary Taubes, Dr. Lustig, and many researchers who conducted the studies showing the benefits of primal lifestyle: Aren&#39;t they intellectuals who are informing us?


    The nasty intellectual/wise folk divide just does not reflect reality. It does reflect a certain knee-jerk anti-intellectualism. I am as uncomfortable with it as I am with anti-populism.


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