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Thread: Newborn babies should not be given sugar as pain relief, says study page 2

  1. #11
    Melody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cillakat View Post
    Absolutely. But formula is a distant, vastly inferior substitute for breastmilk. And our milk isn't some elevating, magical astounding substance. It's simply the *biological norm*. It's simply what human infants need. Anything else is subpar.

    Katherine
    I've been breastfeeding for over 5 years straight, huge lactivist here. I was just stating that formula needs some kind of sugar to attempt to mimic the food it is replacing. You can't just take the sugar out of it. The fats in formula are awful too.

  2. #12
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    Hmm anyone know where I can get grass fed human milk in Europe?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandadude View Post
    Hmm anyone know where I can get grass fed human milk in Europe?
    no no no, you want pastured human breast milk
    I didn't like the rules you gave me, so I made some of my own.

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  4. #14
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    Hmm... could be job opportunities as a wet nurse on the horizon...

  5. #15
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    Actually I'm going to defend formula a bit.

    When my first daughter was born..(The one in my photo with me) no matter what we tried my wife just couldn't breastfeed to the point where the girl would have starved. We tried all the pumps, drugs everything but we had to use formula. What tends to happen though is that when people find out they automatically assume that we used formula because we are lazy. Even midwives, nurses etc would give us that look.

    The truth is that sometimes breastfeeding just doesn't work. Medical professionals don't tell you that though and there is very little help for what to do when it goes wrong. They just kept saying to us "try harder".

    On a bright note though, believe it or not both of our daughters (both formula fed) get sick far less than other children in their mothers group, play group etc. We asked their doctor about this and commented that every report indicates that formula children will be less healthy. He told us that whilst breast milk is ideal most mothers diet is not ideal and therefore their milk is usually not as nutritious. The mother gets their nutrients first then the milk gets some. This doesn't allow a strong immune system to build.

    He commented that whilst formula may not have the antibodies in it it does have adequate nutrition and the child can build up a strong immune system with it.

    So in summary breast milk is best...IF the mother has adequate nutrition for herself and the milk. which given our western diet is probably not as easy as it sounds.

    I was surprised by this. Another thing they don't tell you about being a parent.

  6. #16
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    Had I not been able to breastfeed I had several women lined up to give milk to my babies. Formula isn't the only option.

    And that really isn't true. Breastmilk is alway superior to formula. Breastmilk contains probiotics and stem cells. It's alive. Even if you eat twinkies and chretohs for every meal. I know formula isn't rat poison, but it really is hardly comperable to breastmilk even with the worst diet

  7. #17
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    Two breastfed kids (3 and 15 months). No visits to the doctor other than well checks between them! They do leave the house and circulate amongst others quite regularly....(they were breastfed for 13 and 10 months each - I got really tired of pumping by the second one!)

  8. #18
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    My wife, when she was pregnant, pumped for her babies and three others, so she has seen stored breast milk and formula (a freind used it) and you could SEE the differance (more 'cream' in breast milk, for one)
    I don't know what problems your wife had with breastfeeding, and certainly don't judge in a case like that, but I take doctor's nutritional advise with a TON of salt. Most of them are just CW mouthpeices nutritionaly speaking, if they even think about it.
    An informed source tells me a doctor gets maybe eight hours nutritional training in school and it's ALL CW stuff.
    Not knowing any better, of course they'll spout CW.
    Remember, a doctor is trained to treat (re: prescribe) these days more than to cure. It's not their fault, the FDA has dominion over the medical schools, and big Pharm/Agra has dominion over the FDA.
    A freind of mine had a doctor tell her her baby was alergic to her breast milk: I told her get a better doctor, he was crazy.
    Turns out he was allergic to a food she was eating, which was my belief all along.
    Last edited by 979roadrunner; 09-06-2010 at 12:07 AM. Reason: Added info
    I'm not old, I'm Vintage!

  9. #19
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    Don't get me wrong. We would have much preferred to breastfeed. It's just the demonization from other people who don't understand that we didn't have any other options. It's probably an Australian cultural thing but I've never heard of anyone here sharing milk with others and we're by ourselves with no family and few friends here in Canberra so didn't have anyone to ask.

    Breast is definately better but some people talk about formula like it's poison to children.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by thanatos View Post
    Don't get me wrong. We would have much preferred to breastfeed. It's just the demonization from other people who don't understand that we didn't have any other options. It's probably an Australian cultural thing but I've never heard of anyone here sharing milk with others and we're by ourselves with no family and few friends here in Canberra so didn't have anyone to ask.

    Breast is definately better but some people talk about formula like it's poison to children.
    When there is no other option, certainly formula is lifesaving. I do a tremendous amount of breastfeeding support work and the most important guideline is 'feed the baby first'. If artificial milk is the only option, then it's the one we go with and no one need feel guilty or bad or whatever. It just is what it is.

    But it's still not anything other than what it is: a poor substitute for the substance our own species specific milk. Hear what I'm saying, I'm not saying breastmilk is some magical, golden, mythological substances....it's just basic, normal, biologically appropriate food. But when that system isn't working, there isn't any point in feeling anything but totally fine about feeding formula. *shrugs*

    Interestingly, when moms have supply problems, I rarely recommend the exhausting typical routine of nursing, pumping, feed baby supplement (pumped milk or formula). It devastates breastfeeding relationships.

    Instead, if the baby can latch well, I always recommend breastfeeding for 'x' amount of time (depending on how much milk baby is transfering in that time), then using a nursing supplementer at the breast to give the baby formula. That way the breast continues to get additional emptying (which stimulates supply) and the baby gets the food s/he needs. Along with some domperidone things tend to turn around in about 6 weeks though sometimes the supplement is needed until baby starts solids, which I encourage at 4 months (where there is compromised supply) to slowly replace formula feeds.

    So in summary breast milk is best...IF the mother has adequate nutrition for herself and the milk.
    ah, no. Based on currently available data, breastmilk is still the best option and (obviously) the biological norm for human infants - even when moms diet is poor. Though some day that may not be the case: breastmilk is the most contaminated food on the planet. We pretty much download our toxic load into our firstborn during breastfeeding. Yet still the benefit over artificial milk remains. Will it always?

    Consider that we're better off eating primally even if the cows are eating craptastic grains and the veggies aren't organic. Biologically appropriate still pretty much always trumps _not_ biologically appropriate.

    Of course you (as a family) would rather have had species appropriate milk for the kids...most do. I certainly wouldn't ever think anyone used formula out of laziness - it's much more work! Keep in mind that health care and breastfeeding professionals though are used to hearing excuses all the time from moms who *don't want* to breastfeed, then trot out the 'I didn't have enough milk' or 'I had to take medication' excuses rather than just being honest: "I really DID NOT want to breastfeed." But I certainly, having been in the trenches with moms over serious unresolvable supply issues, wouldn't think one iota differently of you and your wife for using formula. At some point, when you've given it all there is to give, it's reasonable to say, "we need to move on and enjoy this baby and build a family....". In some situations, it really is the only option.

    No one here thinks any less of you. Of formula, yes....but heck, that's only because there *should* be better options available that use lactose instead of sucrose and hfcs.....and a long list of my wishes for infant feeding options. Parents *should* be guided toward supplementing at the breast as a *first* option when supply problems come up - not as a last option when they're already frustrated and exhausted. HCPs should be thoroughly trained in recognizing tongue-tie and clipping it *early* - within a day or two - so that supply problems don't crop up due to tongue tie. HCPs should be thoroughly trained in recognizing latch problems (they *so* aren't even when they think they are) and in resolving them or referring immediately to an appropriate OT or ST for intervention. Moms with symptoms of insufficient glandular tissue (a primary supply issue) should be given information prior pregnancy about how to optimize chances of successful breastfeeding experience (goat's rue or progesterone used preemptively can encourage tissue growth before or between pregnancies which can increase supply). Moms with PCOS should be identified and helped prior to or during pregnancy....with a primal diet and optimal serum vitamin D levels.

    Oh the list is long

    While I'm not crazy about the WAPF's stance on all things, I do like their infant formula recipes and infant feeding guidelines. There is a link in my sig line under 'writings'

    Best to you,
    Katherine



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