Castle Grok of http://www.castlegrok.com is doing a Vegan/Primal thing. He's been on it for a few months, maybe check his site and write to him and see what is working for him.
My only question is how the mock meats are playing into this, aren't those mostly made of soy?
Darthfriendly, What is wrong with the algae DHA ?(I don't take it, but I don't wish desperate inflammation and depression and IBS on anyone, even vegans)
Interesting. I've heard about soaking, but I've never heard that pressure helps.
Originally Posted by Bisous
Pressure + heat. denatures proteins. Kills all lectins but wheat, which is evil. Personally I'd rather eat steak than beans, so why bother with a pressure cooking. But if you were a bean lover, or owned a primal restaurant or something... (in my reading I've heard soaking helps more with killing the phytic acid that binds minerals. Lectins are undone by fermenting and denaturing via high heat and pressure. Except wheat! No way to kill gluten.
Last edited by Bisous; 07-31-2010 at 09:33 AM.
Sorry, I'm an ex-vegetarian. I couldn't see my way to no-grain, no-legume eating without reintroducing meat and fish. Sorry for the lack of moral support, and huge kudos to you for sticking your neck out here. I hope you find some company!
Could you post a typical day's menu, to give me some ideas for reducing the meat a bit?
i'm a veggie. I eat fish, after being on the primal diet i increased my egg count significantly. I must admit it would be easier eating meat i think but thats not my thing.
i eat eggs for breakfast every morning (scrambled or omelette), for lunch its salad with mackeral fillets in sunflower oil, for supper its roast diced veg with roast or pan fried salmon.
i've cut down my fruit intake hugely and every 2 or 3 weeks, i skip one meal a day randomly (for a week)
The biggest issue i seem to have so far is trying to get enough fat.
Hope this helps!
I wish you the best of luck no matter how you follow the primal path, but I hope I can keep you from traipsing down the same troubling steps I followed. In 2006 at 260 pounds I decided to go on a low carb diet as a vegetarian because I was ethically committed to that philosophy. It worked--I lost 140 pounds doing low carb *but* I also failed to maintain the already miserablely low muscle mass I'd had. (And I did make certain to take in optimal amounts of protein. I weighed and logged them faithfully.) Worse, I developed rosacea--a clear indication that my diet was causing serious inflammation. I also failed to fight off a simple infection and ended up hospitalized and on IV antibiotics for two days. And yes, I was taking good vitamins and those algae-based DHA pills daily during my whole diet. I also kept things as organic and natural as I could afford.
I'm a pretty idealistic person. It broke my heart to confess that a vegetarian diet was detrimental to my health, but that was the truth. A few months after my hospitalization I forced myself to take a bite of salmon. It shocked me how *nourishing* that fish felt in my mouth. A few months after that I gave in to science and started including humanely raised, grassfed animals in my diet. It has made a world of difference in my health and wellbeing.
So, here's the reality: You *can* do a Primal Blueprint diet as a lacto-ovo vegetarian, but your fat and protein sources will be bound up with unhealthy amounts of Omega 6 fat that can cause ill health. Furthermore, you will be missing out on the health-boosting nutrients that naturally raised meat contains. (Carnitine, heme-iron and CLA are a few examples.) Even if you choose only pastured eggs wtih maximum Omega 3 content, the amount of Omega 6 the eggs contain will encourage inflammation if you eat more than about 3 a day. (See Dr Stephan's excellent blog Whole Health Source for an understanding of the implications of Omega 6 PUFA.) Almonds might seem primal friendly, but they are absolutely loaded with Omega 6. I cannot stress to you how much my health improved when I stopped consuming so much O6. My rosacea went away as if it had never existed. I stopped getting sick completely. (Since I work checking people into an Emergency Room and am routinely coughed and sneezed upon, this is *not* insignificant. My coworkers get all the viral illnesses that pass through our hospital. I get nothing.)
As for dairy, I love it dearly, but it is no friend to someone wanting to lose weight. I have included modest amounts of fresh raw milk and its home-fermented products in my diet several times since losing all my weight. Each time these foods made it difficult to maintain my weight loss. You may be lucky and be able to consume milk products without trouble, but for me dairy encourages fat gain far beyond what its caloric content would suggest. Furthermore, I am a believer that casein spells trouble for anyone inclined to autoimmune disorders. At present, milk products are a holiday indulgence for me.
Having stated all this, if the universe *forced* me to attempt the Primal Blueprint as a lacto-ovo vegetarian, I would do my best. I would eat exactly 3 whole eggs a day and get the remainder of my protein from egg whites and raw milk products. (Specifically: I would find a local source of raw milk to make yogurt and kefir at home.) The dairy, even with much of its carbohydrate fermented away, would slow weight loss but so be it: I cannot live on eggs alone! I would use organic ghee, coconut oil, macadamia nut oil and cocoa butter as sources of fat to complement my egg whites in the various stir fry dishes and salads I would make. Some days I might leave out the egg yolks and include avocado and/or olives for variety. (But not too often! You need the natural form of vitamin A in yolk. Beta carotene is a weak, inadequate substitute.) Whatever I did, though, I would faithfully track my Omega 6 intake and make sure it wasn't more than 4% of my daily calories. I would also take those algae-based DHA pills every single day even if they are sub-optimal. (Darthfriendly--please elaborate!) I would take the following supplements: Vitamin D3 in olive oil, L-Carnitine, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Conjugated Linoleic Acid, CoQ10, and Chromium GTF. I would also remind myself that the food portion of the Primal Blueprint is only one part of the overall life-boosting plan. Even if my diet isn't the greatest, I can try to make up for it by acing the rest of the lifestyle.
It's been truly difficult for me to balance my respect for animals with my growing understanding of human nutrition, so I empathize with anyone facing the same struggle. Please consider reading Lierre Keith's The Vegetarian Myth. It has helped mend my bruised animal-loving heart.
Best to you,
Gosh- I have to agree with Liss here.
It might help to do undenatured whey protein (Source naturals has a grass-fed whey), but I noticed much better muscle mass when I started eating meat and more fish. Just eggs and dairy weren't enough for me. You do miss out on carnitine and carnosine, among other nutrients.
I do understand it's very personal, though, but as a former veggie, I wish it hadn't taken me so long to eat meat. I can't do much dairy anyway, so that has never been a real protein option for me, other than small amounts. I have a friend who has been doing vegetarian Primal for awhile now and her acupuncturist just told her that she has to start eating meat because she's too blood deficient and her diet isn't "building" enough- it's too cleansing.
hope none of this is intrusive or insulting,not meant to be at all. you have really bitten off a big bit to chew. with vegans i always ask-why? in my experience 99% of vegans are that way due to ethical/moral considerations. being a carnivore (omnivore),hunter and fisherman (both essentilly grocery shoping manuvers) i think that that position is irrational based on human anatomy,physiology and evolutionary history. and,IMHO there is no higher power mandating a vegan position. i'm also an atheist,so go figure. that said,i do respect the discipline of true vegans (ovo,fish,whatever level). i can't hardly stay off cuban yellow rice or indian breads for 3 weeks. i would say that fish/shellfish as suggested by others here would be a helpfull thing,depending on your moral/ethical position vis a vis warm blood vs cold blood. if not a cope out,just no red meat/mammal products would get you made in the shade. if your are firm in ovo-lacto only,it should work in a modified way-IMHO using wild rice,best tubers(yams,sweet potatoes vs white). contrary to many here,i think that some human populations have indeed drifted into somewhat higher carb tolerant populations based on rather short 8-15K years of exposure. my example is india. a lot of smart people,some very bad assed dudes,and their women? sorry to be crass and shallow,but,OMG! what you seek to do can be done. the farther "up the scale" you go the more likely it will "get er done".