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Thread: Saturated Fat and Prostate Health page 6

  1. #51
    lmyers04's Avatar
    lmyers04 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianP View Post
    Point me to a post where I recommend men eat massive amounts of soy, or even any soy.

    Second, talking about getting owned, the post that you linked to actually says the OPPOSITE of the point you are trying to make. In the trials using a Soy extract, mens' PSA levels actually WENT DOWN. To put it to you in idiot terms, "Low PSA good, High PSA bad." So, taking Soy actually had a positive effect on these men.

    So, congratulations on making a total fool out of yourself.

    Maybe you need to go back to the Weston A Price Nutjob Foundation and get some proper talking points from them.
    adrianp youre so bitchy sometimes.



    And, if you would read the study carefully, and not just the first paragraph, you will see that among the patients with biopsy-proven prostate cancer, all but one of them had increases in PSA levels:


    "In the study, 62 men with biopsy-proven prostate cancer and elevated PSA levels were given 5 grams a day of genistein concentrated polysaccharide for six months. Sixteen of the men were on watchful waiting for their disease. The remaining 46 had undergone surgery, radiation or hormone therapy.
    Of those 46 men, one had no change in his PSA level during the study; the rest all had increases in PSA.

    So PSA decreases were only seen in the "watchful-waiting" patients, that is, patients who have no advanced form of the disease. There were only 16 patients tested in this group! Among the 16 men on watchful waiting, three stopped therapy due to diarrhoea(yay soy!).

    "Of the 13 who completed the study, only eight saw a drop in their PSA level, with the decreases in PSA ranging from 3 per cent to 61 per cent."

    So, out of 62, 8 had PSA decreases, 1 had no change, and 45 had PSA increases, and 3 quit the study due to diarrhea. AND the PSA decreases all happened in patients who are in the "watchful waiting" part of their disease, not in patients who have more advanced stages of the disease, or who have had treatment or surgery.

    Looks like Athena's link does show that PSA levels are raised when soy is supplemented. But to know that, you actually gotta read the article and not just the first paragraph......
    Last edited by lmyers04; 08-02-2010 at 08:39 AM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmyers04 View Post
    adrianp youre so bitchy sometimes.

    And, if you would read the study carefully, and not just the first paragraph, you will see that among the patients with biopsy-proven prostate cancer, all but one of them had increases in PSA levels:

    Looks like Athena's link does show that PSA levels are raised when soy is supplemented. But to know that, you actually gotta read the article and not just the first paragraph......
    Maybe all that saturated fat you are eating is clogging your brain. Or maybe you were never really good at comprehension. There were TWO sets of patients.

    The 46 that you refer to were those that had already undergone treatment, therapy, hormones etc. The soy supplement did not have any effect on them:

    In the study, 62 men with biopsy-proven prostate cancer and elevated PSA levels were given 5 grams a day of genistein concentrated polysaccharide for six months. Sixteen of the men were on watchful waiting for their disease. The remaining 46 had undergone surgery, radiation or hormone therapy.
    Yes, there was no effect on this group. And it is quite common for those that have had prostate surgery to see increases in PSA even after the treatment. The effect cannot be attributed to soy supplementation alone. Rather than causing their psa to rise, the more accurate conclusion is that the soy could not stop their PSA from rising. A subtle difference that might go over your head.

    But, the group of 16 that had NO PREVIOUS TREATMENT at all did seem to get some benefits from the soy.

    Among the 16 men on watchful waiting, three stopped therapy due to diarrhoea. Of the 13 who completed the study, eight saw a drop in their PSA level, with the decreases in PSA ranging from 3 per cent to 61 per cent.
    So, in fact Athena's link proved the complete opposite point to the one that she was trying to make. And she made a total fool out of herself. As have you, by trying to support her indefensible argument.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianP View Post
    Maybe all that saturated fat you are eating is clogging your brain. Or maybe you were never really good at comprehension. There were TWO sets of patients.

    The 46 that you refer to were those that had already undergone treatment, therapy, hormones etc. The soy supplement did not have any effect on them:



    Yes, there was no effect on this group. And it is quite common for those that have had prostate surgery to see increases in PSA even after the treatment. The effect cannot be attributed to soy supplementation alone. Rather than causing their psa to rise, the more accurate conclusion is that the soy could not stop their PSA from rising. A subtle difference that might go over your head.

    But, the group of 16 that had NO PREVIOUS TREATMENT at all did seem to get some benefits from the soy.



    So, in fact Athena's link proved the complete opposite point to the one that she was trying to make. And she made a total fool out of herself. As have you, by trying to support her indefensible argument.

    haha we have made fools of ourselves because we say soy is dangerous to consume? Yea, ok.

    so 8 people out of 62 proves that soy helps? are you derranged? And the 45 people that had PSA increases on the soy supplement is still the most interesting part of the study. Of course their elevated PSA levels are partly due to the fact that they are prostate cancer patients. for lack of a better term...........duh. However, their PSA levels rose even higher with the soy supp. While we cannot pinpoint if this was solely due to the introduced supplement, seeing PSA increases after in introduced supplement, even in biopsy-proven patients, is still fairly intresting to me, and im not sure why you ignore this part of the study...
    Last edited by lmyers04; 08-02-2010 at 03:07 PM.

  4. #54
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    Iodine Cures Proven for the Prostate with testimonials, Dr. Research:
    http://tinyurl.com/Iodine-Cures-Prostate

    Grizz

  5. #55
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    Unless you are climbing trees and chasing down wild bison for food, I would think that a diet very high in fat is not optimum.
    A couple of rather scientific sources have a different point of view on that. I recommend reading 'The Perfect health Diet' from the Jaminets on this topic. They also explain that ancient hunter gatheres might have moved a little less what would be our intuitiv guess like lots of moving and walking but not so much sprinting, climbing and hunting all the time.

    The book has a rather scientific approach and the authors are trying to back up what they say all the time. Their conclusion a healthy diet is high fat + lots of vegetables and they give excellent reasoning for their claims.

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