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Thread: Do we need the excess fat? page

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    Malkavian's Avatar
    Malkavian is offline Junior Member
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    Do we need the excess fat?

    Hello good people,

    I was thinking:
    When looking at the Leangains blog, he gives examples of meals that he thinks are ideal. The first one that pops up looks delicious, but it lacks added fat. The thing is, Martin Berkhan obviously know what he are doing since he possesses such an extreme physique himself. What I was wondering is, do we really need all that extra fat? Or have I misinterpreted the Primal Blueprint? Isn't the Primal Blueprint low carb, high fat? Martin seems to be advocating high protein, medium carbs, medium fat, and thrive on it. If we go low on the carbs, we keep stable bloodsugar, but is that extra fat really necessary? I know that a high protein diet seem to make you hungrier, and I'm not talking about a fear of fat, just making sure it's there, just not overdoing it?

    If I put it like this: If Martin Berkhan would follow a low carb, high fat diet, would that hinder him or improve his physique even futher, what do you guys think?

    Malkavian

  2. #2
    Diana Renata's Avatar
    Diana Renata is offline Senior Member
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    For me, it's not about getting "extra" fat, but not being afraid to eat it. If I want butter on my veggies, I'm not worried about what it'll do to me. I don't feel bad for really enjoying the fat on my pork chop. Coconut milk or heavy cream in my coffee tastes REALLY good, and I'm not worried that it'll make me fat. I think that's sort of the idea of being Primal. It's not so much about trying to eat more fat than you need, but not worrying about the fat that you do eat.

    With that said, my diet tends to be 60% fat, 30% protein and 10% carb, on average.

  3. #3
    lil_earthmomma's Avatar
    lil_earthmomma is offline Senior Member
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    Ya, I don't need to add extra fat just to up my fats, my ratios are fine without it. I love bacon, chicken thighs with the skin on, fatty cuts of pork, lamb and beef... and butter or bacon fat to cook everything in. My BAS dressings are quite fatty as well.

  4. #4
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    Right. I don't go out of my way to avoid fat, but neither do I work at adding extra. The only macro I count (loosely and mentally) is carbs; beyond that, I simply eat primal foods to satiety. This approach naturally leads to the appropriate ratios.
    Nightlife ~ Chronicles of Less Urban Living, Fresh from In the Night Farm ~ Idaho's Primal Farm! http://inthenightlife.wordpress.com/

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  5. #5
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    Martins goals include maintaining 5% body fat. so, yea, his diet is going to look a lot different from mine!!!

  6. #6
    mayness's Avatar
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    Is a Berkhan-esque physique your only goal, or are you doing this for health as well? That will probably affect the answer. There are a lot of ways to get lean, not all of them will be equally healthy for your body in the long run. I think a low- to moderate-carb, high-fat diet like this one fits the science best right now, so even if it would make me hold on to more unwanted body fat, I'd keep eating like this rather than eating leaner meats or more starchy veggies or whatnot.

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    Mike Alzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayness View Post
    Is a Berkhan-esque physique your only goal, or are you doing this for health as well? That will probably affect the answer. There are a lot of ways to get lean, not all of them will be equally healthy for your body in the long run. I think a low- to moderate-carb, high-fat diet like this one fits the science best right now, so even if it would make me hold on to more unwanted body fat, I'd keep eating like this rather than eating leaner meats or more starchy veggies or whatnot.
    +1

  8. #8
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    You've got to have enough of one or the other... sugar (carbs) or fat for fuel. Or both as Martin does it.

  9. #9
    iniQuity's Avatar
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    A paleo friend once told me a long while back when I first started PB the following, not sure if it holds any water though, fome folks here said not really. You will be able to tell form the e-mail that my friend was relatively new to Paleo and was most likely still getting the hang of it so to speak. All of you alrady know this info, but at the time I had no idea and he was kind enough to explain. The important part is bolded:

    "Iniquity,

    So I was doing some thinking about the paleodiet that I’ve been following for the last month or so, and I am going to make some slight revisions to it. That being the case, its only right that I let you in on my modifications since I have been touting it to you as one of the greatest diets of all time.

    Here’s what I have been doing: no grains or dairy, no processed (i.e. non-fruit related) sugars, minimal amounts of salt, lots of protein in the form of organic white meat, eggs, and wild-caught fish, lots of vegetables, lots of fruit, lots …LOTS of fat (almonds, almond butter, olive oil, pecans, walnuts, pistachios, avocados, fatty fish like salmon). Don’t get me wrong… I love this diet. I have tons of energy, I sleep great, my hair stopped falling out, my moods are stable, etc… and now, before I get into what I don’t like about it, I need to set the backdrop.
    I started doing paleo because I couldn’t do muay thai anymore and didn’t want to put on weight. You know how I have a sick obsession with working out, how I would go to crossfit five days a week in the morning, run 8 miles, then go to muay thai five times a week at night. That being the case, I got used to having <4% body fat. Now that I’m not doing muay thai anymore and I’m only doing sprints once or twice a week, running long distance once a week, and doing the crossfit thing 4-5x a week, I’ve cut back on the number of calories being burned per day while simultaneously INCREASING the amount of fat I consume, so I naturally have put on ten pounds since starting paleo and am not as cut as I was. Granted, I’m at my natural body weight now and am putting on muscle from the crossfit resistance training, and you can still see all of my abs, but I want to look like I did when I was doing muay thai 5x a week again.
    The only way I can realistically see that happening is if I cut out all the fat that I’ve been eating. From now on, I’ll just be eating lean meat, fish, vegetables, and some fruit with MAYBE a handful of nuts here and there (insert joke here). I did this modified form of the paleo diet when I first started training at njmt and IMMEDIATELY lost 30 pounds and was the most shredded human being on earth. I probably had 3% body fat at that time, and I was barely ever running. What happens is, in the absence of carbs, your body stops producing abundant amounts of insulin. Insulin is a hormone that tells your body to store fat and burn carbs for energy. In the absence of excess insulin, your body naturally feeds on fat for fuel. Right now, since I’m eating a ton of fat, I’m basically just burning through the fat that I’m taking in and not burning off any of the reserves that I’d previously stored. By cutting back on my fat intake, I’ll start tapping into my body fat reserves for energy and should see my weight come down and my body SERIOUSLY lean out, but since I’ll still be taking in significant amounts of protein, I’ll be able to maintain muscle mass and the vegetables I’ll be eating will satisfy my carb/vitamin&mineral requirements. If you’re trying to lean out, I just don’t want to give you the impression that eating as much fat as you want, healthy fat or not, will get you there because it most likely won’t, it will just keep you where you are now. If you want to lose weight and really slim out, I’d monitor the fat intake, but eat a good amount of protein (1g for every pound of your ideal body weight). In other words, if you want to weigh in at 160, eat 160g protein per day. Hope this helps."

    So as you can see, he was still holding on to some theories that are heavily debated around here and other paleo forums, calories in vs calories out, dietary fat will make you fat, etc. I haven't spoken to him in quite some time so I'm not sure how it went, but knowing him he monitored for a month or so and adjusted accordingly. We used to train at the same MuayThai gym for a long time but both left around the same time. He joined CrossFit I did my own thing and focused on nutrition.

    By the way, I'm happy/surprised to announce that my weight is currently 145 from my starting weight of 174! I only weigh myself at my gf's house and only when I remember. I'm only announcing it because that was my "OH MY GOD IF I COULD GET THERE I'D BE SO HAPPY" weight but guess what? I'm only content, sure I'm happy, but it's not like it was at the beginning, life is about much more. I'm focused on improving athletic skills, enjoying myself and trying to play much more, getting quality sleep, learning about our physiology, etc. It was just very surprising to see that number after eating a helping of chicken and cow heart kabobs (my gf thinks they were just beef kabobs or she wouldn't eat them haha)

  10. #10
    EGYnutrition's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iniQuity View Post
    A paleo friend once told me a long while back when I first started PB the following, not sure if it holds any water though, fome folks here said not really. You will be able to tell form the e-mail that my friend was relatively new to Paleo and was most likely still getting the hang of it so to speak. All of you alrady know this info, but at the time I had no idea and he was kind enough to explain. The important part is bolded:

    "Iniquity,

    So I was doing some thinking about the paleodiet that I’ve been following for the last month or so, and I am going to make some slight revisions to it. That being the case, its only right that I let you in on my modifications since I have been touting it to you as one of the greatest diets of all time.

    Here’s what I have been doing: no grains or dairy, no processed (i.e. non-fruit related) sugars, minimal amounts of salt, lots of protein in the form of organic white meat, eggs, and wild-caught fish, lots of vegetables, lots of fruit, lots …LOTS of fat (almonds, almond butter, olive oil, pecans, walnuts, pistachios, avocados, fatty fish like salmon). Don’t get me wrong… I love this diet. I have tons of energy, I sleep great, my hair stopped falling out, my moods are stable, etc… and now, before I get into what I don’t like about it, I need to set the backdrop.
    I started doing paleo because I couldn’t do muay thai anymore and didn’t want to put on weight. You know how I have a sick obsession with working out, how I would go to crossfit five days a week in the morning, run 8 miles, then go to muay thai five times a week at night. That being the case, I got used to having <4% body fat. Now that I’m not doing muay thai anymore and I’m only doing sprints once or twice a week, running long distance once a week, and doing the crossfit thing 4-5x a week, I’ve cut back on the number of calories being burned per day while simultaneously INCREASING the amount of fat I consume, so I naturally have put on ten pounds since starting paleo and am not as cut as I was. Granted, I’m at my natural body weight now and am putting on muscle from the crossfit resistance training, and you can still see all of my abs, but I want to look like I did when I was doing muay thai 5x a week again.
    The only way I can realistically see that happening is if I cut out all the fat that I’ve been eating. From now on, I’ll just be eating lean meat, fish, vegetables, and some fruit with MAYBE a handful of nuts here and there (insert joke here). I did this modified form of the paleo diet when I first started training at njmt and IMMEDIATELY lost 30 pounds and was the most shredded human being on earth. I probably had 3% body fat at that time, and I was barely ever running. What happens is, in the absence of carbs, your body stops producing abundant amounts of insulin. Insulin is a hormone that tells your body to store fat and burn carbs for energy. In the absence of excess insulin, your body naturally feeds on fat for fuel. Right now, since I’m eating a ton of fat, I’m basically just burning through the fat that I’m taking in and not burning off any of the reserves that I’d previously stored. By cutting back on my fat intake, I’ll start tapping into my body fat reserves for energy and should see my weight come down and my body SERIOUSLY lean out, but since I’ll still be taking in significant amounts of protein, I’ll be able to maintain muscle mass and the vegetables I’ll be eating will satisfy my carb/vitamin&mineral requirements. If you’re trying to lean out, I just don’t want to give you the impression that eating as much fat as you want, healthy fat or not, will get you there because it most likely won’t, it will just keep you where you are now. If you want to lose weight and really slim out, I’d monitor the fat intake, but eat a good amount of protein (1g for every pound of your ideal body weight). In other words, if you want to weigh in at 160, eat 160g protein per day. Hope this helps."

    So as you can see, he was still holding on to some theories that are heavily debated around here and other paleo forums, calories in vs calories out, dietary fat will make you fat, etc. I haven't spoken to him in quite some time so I'm not sure how it went, but knowing him he monitored for a month or so and adjusted accordingly. We used to train at the same MuayThai gym for a long time but both left around the same time. He joined CrossFit I did my own thing and focused on nutrition.

    By the way, I'm happy/surprised to announce that my weight is currently 145 from my starting weight of 174! I only weigh myself at my gf's house and only when I remember. I'm only announcing it because that was my "OH MY GOD IF I COULD GET THERE I'D BE SO HAPPY" weight but guess what? I'm only content, sure I'm happy, but it's not like it was at the beginning, life is about much more. I'm focused on improving athletic skills, enjoying myself and trying to play much more, getting quality sleep, learning about our physiology, etc. It was just very surprising to see that number after eating a helping of chicken and cow heart kabobs (my gf thinks they were just beef kabobs or she wouldn't eat them haha)
    That bolded part is what a lot of people don't realize.

    In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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