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    ampespidi's Avatar
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    Please Rip This To Shreds

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    Sometimes, in my daily research, I come across something laughable. Today is one of those days. I think I had read some veg*an comment about meat and "endotoxins." I was googling this to see what argument this was and came across this gem:


    Why Meat Causes Inflammation | Care2 Healthy Living

    Every link is to nutritionfacts.org, and the author doesn't actually explain how or why animal products would cause inflammation (at least not here)...but anyway, I brought it here to be "debated." I haven't done much research on endotoxins, so I don't know much about them. I already think this guy is a quack, but I'd like y'all to break down the why. Is anyone familiar with this guy's work? If this has been discussed before, please link me. I just want to be able to be on the defensive should I come across such an "argument" from someone in life, and so I can understand endotoxins a bit better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampespidi View Post
    "endotoxins"
    Yeah, I just ignore all the 'science' crap with four syllable words. Probably "endotoxins" are just made up, same as "antioxidants" and other such nonsense.

    People want to turn something simple into something complicated, so they can look smart. Write a book and such...

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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    Seems like a load of vegan bullshit. Those cunts really have a hard-on for plants.
    HA!! Vegan nonsense gets really funny.

    They use lines of "reasoning" such as -- humans didn't evolve claws thus they are not designed to eat meat. You know, just ignore the body of work which is anthropology/evolution.

    And -- gorillas are really big and strong eating plants, so homo sapiens don't need meat. You know, because gorillas and homo sapiens are the same species.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Yeah, I just ignore all the 'science' crap with four syllable words. Probably "endotoxins" are just made up, same as "antioxidants" and other such nonsense.
    I'll have your glucathione if you're not using it.

    M.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God View Post
    Seems like a load of vegan bullshit. Those cunts really have a hard-on for plants. Why don't they go marry a broccoli plant already.

    Muscle meat does cause inflammation though, if you don't balance it with gelatin, because of the amino acid imbalances. Too much methionine in muscle meat, not enough glycine.

    Too true. I'm aware of the amino acid imbalance - and this "article" is, of course, saying animal fat causes chronic inflammation - because we eat it all the time! GASP! I clicked on his link to the "Leaky Gut Theory" video - at :23, the study he is citing where animal products cause inflammation used Egg and Sausage MCMUFFINS to prove their theory. Of course, being the genius he is, he said within hours of eating animal FAT, arteries stiffen. Oh jeebus. My problem is people actually listen to this crap and become vegans because of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
    I'll have your glucathione if you're not using it.
    Keep it buddy!

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    Argh, I'm too lazy at the moment to dick around on Pubmed, but there is a substantial amount of research regarding endotoxemia, inflammation, and chronic disease. Endotoxin (lipopolysaccharide) is an important ligand of Toll-like receptor 4, a pattern recognition receptor, which is what triggers the inflammation in response to the meal. And it's impossible to avoid, because endotoxin is a normal constituent of gram-negative bacteria, which is ubiquitous in your GI tract. As to why meat would trigger this inflammatory process, the best explanation I've seen is that endotoxins in the small intestine can actually be taken up into the lymphatic system along with chylomicrons during fat absorption. And that's more a matter of fat than meat, necessarily; you can get lean meat. I've also seen some preclinical research showing too much fat can disrupt intestinal permeability and shift the balance of the gut flora to a more inflammatory profile, so to speak, so that could be contributing as well. Of course, it could also be a species-specific effect, and I'd like to see more research in humans. I do know that excess energy intake is associated with endotoxemia, so... don't overeat.

    As for his claim about exogenous endotoxins being more relevant to inflammation than endogenous ones, I don't really believe that. I think it's probably needless fear mongering, but I don't feel like watching his stupid video just to get the link. It'd be nice if he would just put links in his articles like a normal person. I once came across a study talking about endotoxin exposure from fucking photo copiers. Anywhere bacteria exist (everywhere), you're going to find endotoxins.

    Anyway, a nice way to combat inflammation is to eat whole foods with fiber and antioxidants. The takeaway should be to eat plants, not to completely avoid meat.
    Last edited by TacotheTim; 09-22-2014 at 04:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TacotheTim View Post
    The takeaway should be to eat plants, not to completely avoid meat.
    Exactly.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
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    bloodorchid is always right

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    Quote Originally Posted by TacotheTim View Post
    Argh, I'm too lazy at the moment to dick around on Pubmed, but there is a substantial amount of research regarding endotoxemia, inflammation, and chronic disease. Endotoxin (lipopolysaccharide) is an important ligand of Toll-like receptor 4, a pattern recognition receptor, which is what triggers the inflammation in response to the meal. And it's impossible to avoid, because endotoxin is a normal constituent of gram-negative bacteria, which is ubiquitous in your GI tract. As to why meat would trigger this inflammatory process, the best explanation I've seen is that endotoxins in the small intestine can actually be taken up into the lymphatic system along with chylomicrons during fat absorption. And that's more a matter of fat than meat, necessarily; you can get lean meat. I've also seen some preclinical research showing too much fat can disrupt intestinal permeability and shift the balance of the gut flora to a more inflammatory profile, so to speak, so that could be contributing as well. Of course, it could also be a species-specific effect, and I'd like to see more research in humans. I do know that excess energy intake is associated with endotoxemia, so... don't overeat.

    As for his claim about exogenous endotoxins being more relevant to inflammation than endogenous ones, I don't really believe that. I think it's probably needless fear mongering, but I don't feel like watching his stupid video just to get the link. It'd be nice if he would just put links in his articles like a normal person. I once came across a study talking about endotoxin exposure from fucking photo copiers. Anywhere bacteria exist (everywhere), you're going to find endotoxins.

    Anyway, a nice way to combat inflammation is to eat whole foods with fiber and antioxidants. The takeaway should be to eat plants, not to completely avoid meat.
    Ah, thank you. I'll have to dig around PubMed and read more, but this should get me started in the right direction. Thanks.

    I'm certain it's fear mongering, but better to dissect why it's fear mongering than to not know why at all.
    _________________________________________________
    "We really shook the Pillars of Heaven, didn't we Wang?"
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    "No horsesh*t."

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