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Thread: Macronutrients balance labyrinth page

  1. #1
    RedValkyria's Avatar
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    Macronutrients balance labyrinth

    Primal Fuel
    Hi everyone.

    I've finally sat down and decided that it's time to put some order into this crazy diet of mine. Budget wise, I've found a good solution. Now, macronutrients wise... I'm really lost.

    I've read Mark's posts about the grams per lean body mass of protein, etc., and still, I'm looking at my numbers like a rabbit in the middle of the road.

    The numbers are:

    • Now:
      • Weight: ~62kg (around 163,7 lbs?)
      • Height: 1,69m (66,6'?)

    • Goals:
      • Weight: 58-59kg (the reasons are another story)
      • Height: hopefully, I won't shrink
      • Calories: 1600/day
      • Carbohydrates: 70g (I'm having real energy and mood problems and I feel that my body needs some more carbs to work properly)


    By introducing my food intake the last four days on Calorie Calc, I've realised that I eat A LOT of protein, because it really satiates me, but then I also go high fat because well, that's the point of all this. This, combined with the fact that the only workouts I make are... standing in front of my computer (not sitting), walking barefoot whilst shopping groceries (~2h, and not everyday), and... sleeping badly?

    Today, for example, I'd a 17g carbs, 123g protein (I feasted on a lot of raw minced beef, a 2 egg omelette, a some sautéed spinach), and 78g fats (the meat, the coconut oil, and ~1½ cups of home-made chicken stock, I guess). Usually, the ratio is a bit more like 50% fats, 44% proteins, 6% carbohydrates.

    Well, I've got to regulate the protein intake, because yes, I feel satiated (and I see raw beef and I can't control myself), yet afterwards, my energy isn't that good and my stomach feels strange. Furthermore, I'm not active enough to get 123g of protein/day, I think...!

    After doing some numbers, I got I should aim for:
    • 70g (280 calories) from carbohydrates
    • 60g (240 calories) from protein
    • 164,4g (1480 calories) from fat


    What.

    Am I doing something really wrong or I'm having an unexpected fat-phobia attack...? And how on Earth am I going to eat that much fat with so little hunger since I started all this (mid-June), with a 90% autoimmune protocol going on, and without feeling nauseous (which often happens if I eat too much)?

    I need a greasy hand, here.

    På forhånd, tak! (;

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    Elliot's Avatar
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    While I don't think it's necessary to eat a high-fat diet, if you choose to do so, one thing that helps is eating the fat with protein. Eating a piece of butter on its own is somewhat unappetizing, but eating butter together with meat on the same fork is pleasant. So eat both together.

    Also, a kilogram is about 2.2 pounds, so if you're 62 kg, you're 136 pounds.

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    RedValkyria's Avatar
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    Thank you for your answer, Elliot (:

    I'm in fact trying to figure out what to do. Fat and my stomach have never really been very good friends. The only one I've always been able to stand without problems is extra virgin olive oil...

    I thought about a paleo high carb approach, because I'm really not feeling like this is working, and I wonder if it's too soon to decide the next move, or if struggling with these symptoms (weakness, moodiness, palpitations, very dry skin, and very bad body smell (something with which I haven't had problems at all during my previous ovo-vegetarian stage) isn't worth it and I should start switching to fruits in smoothies.

    And thanks for the unit conversion tip. I'm so lost with the pounds, the inches...


    Red-

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    If you really don't like the high-fat approach then I would recommend not doing it. Don't condemn yourself to something you don't like unless you've concluded it's the only option.

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    Oh, it's not about liking or not (:

    First, I didn't like the idea of stopping dairy, for example. I've always always been a cheese addicted, but I needed to see what would happen. I've been struggling with bad health for more 20 years... No dairy, no animal products, more fat... I'm trying to find the way. And I guess, you only manage to do so with time.

    Yet, I don't know if I should wait more, or someone else has had these symptoms and has something to recommend me. That's why I posted. I need more voiced than that of my questions on my head (;


    Red-

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedValkyria View Post
    • Now:
      • Weight: ~62kg (around 163,7 lbs?)
      • Height: 1,69m (66,6'?)

    • Goals:
      • Weight: 58-59kg (the reasons are another story)
      • Height: hopefully, I won't shrink
      • Calories: 1600/day
      • Carbohydrates: 70g (I'm having real energy and mood problems and I feel that my body needs some more carbs to work properly)
    So why not go up to, say, 100 grams of carbohydrates? 70 is too high to be ketogenic. If you're not aiming to flip the keto switch, you might as well listen to your body.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedValkyria View Post
    After doing some numbers, I got I should aim for:
    • 70g (280 calories) from carbohydrates
    • 60g (240 calories) from protein
    • 164,4g (1480 calories) from fat
    What prompted you to go from 1600 to 2000 calories (280+240+1480)? Unless you are very physically active, I doubt you can lose while eating 2000 calories.

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    RedValkyria's Avatar
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    ...

    And that's why I'm anthropologist, designer, and ceramist, and not mathematician xD

    I have subtracted the wrong numbers haha Dear Goddess. Thanks for that, sharperhawk ^^;

    So well, yes, my aim is 1600. 2000 is... 2000 ._. So it'd be... 1080 calories from fat.

    As for the carbs, I don't know. I've been a carb animal all my life. I ate such an insane amount of bread every day, that I'm afraid of getting hooked again, I guess... Of course, the quality of the carbs on a sweet potato, aren't as those on a cannel roll, but Can carbs be so high, and still lose those 3 extra kilos being as active as I'm?


    Red-

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    but Can carbs be so high, and still lose those 3 extra kilos being as active as I'm?
    Yes. You can lose weight on a high-carb diet; you can lose weight on a low carb diet; you can lose weight on a medium-carb diet. Don't let the low-carbers here scare you. It's possible that you can only lose weight on a low-carb diet, but you shouldn't conclude that arbitrarily.

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    You can lose weight with any macro partition. With only 4 kg (~9 lbs) to lose, you might as well find a way of eating that you like and can sustain for a lifetime. A low carb and high fat diet has both advantages and disadvantages. People with a great deal of weight to lose are often willing to suffer the disadvantages for the advantages, such as appetite suppression. I'd guess you are within 2-3 months of your goal, so you might as well find your own sweet spot for carb intake.

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    There is a well known phenomenon in carb counting circles, the name is escaping me right now. There is an unpleasant zone between keto-adapted and carb-dependent, where you don't have enough carbs to keep you fueled but your body has refused to fat adapt because it didn't ever need to. It's a bit like exercise, you have to send a strong enough adaptation signal to your lazy body (mine is lazy too) or it just won't change. I think this is why Atkins came up with the Induction phase with 20 gm/day of carbs; it forces your cells to build up fat burning machinery. Atkins never suggested STAYING in ketosis all the time although that probably doesn't hurt anybody either, but I think it probably helps to do a 2 week very low carb trial depending on your goals.

    Also I have some geekish tendencies and like to keep numbers like calories, macronutrients, etc. What I've come to believe is that for me it can become a bit of a fools errand. I used cronometer.com to keep track, and for example they don't even have rib eye steaks with fat on them; I suspect they still don't believe that a health conscious person would dream of a fatty steak (rib eye is one of my drugs of choice.) Even if they DID put the ribeye on, they'd say trimmed of fat and even if they did say untrimmed, you would be lucky to get within 10-20% of the real amount in that real steak in front of you. Are you going to weigh everything? So you'd be lucky to get within 10-20% overall of your Calories In on the CICO equation. Being ten percent off on calories over a year calculates out to something like 4 kg or 10 lb.

    Then there's the other side. Calories out. Unless you live in a metabolic research ward and wear a CO2 and O2 measuring mask and control your body temp, who knows how many calories you're burning? The majority of calories burned have nothing to do with activity--brain needs 400-600 cal/day, sodium potassium pumps in all your cells are pumping away and burn energy, etc. If you try to control calories down, your body may unconsciously turn down the thermostat and stop burning as many calories. You'll just feel cold and won't burn any fat because your primal body thinks a famine is here. "Store more fat!"

    So if you can't accurately measure calories in OR calories out, my conclusion is that I'm not going to spend any time worrying about a theoretically appealing but useless in practice equation! I try to control my protein to about the size of the palm of my hand each meal, lots of low carby vegies like leafies, broccoli, cauliflower, peppers, cucumbers, summer squashes, avocados, etc and live my life.

    Doc Jim
    10/2/12: 169 lbs, 37"waist
    Now: low 150's, 33" waist
    Blog: http://paleopathologist.com/

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