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Thread: Another gem from Rippetoe. Gorbag gonna hate. Chasing soreness is futile. page

  1. #1
    RichMahogany's Avatar
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    Another gem from Rippetoe. Gorbag gonna hate. Chasing soreness is futile.

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    OldSchhool's Avatar
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    I agree with him in that soreness does not necessarily equate to a productive workout in that you could sit with a 10 lb dumbbell raised above your head for an hour and awake the following morning with the sorest delt that you have ever had.

    However if you are training as you normally do and are pushing to momentary muscular failure within a time under tension that is conducive to size/strength and you wake up sore then that's a pretty good indicator that you had a good workout.

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    respectfully saying this lol I am still sulking about rippetoe saying people who train like me are wasting my time as I get bored doing just the squats, deadlifts and presses or whatever it is. that in mind, I skim read this what I can say is I have never equated soreness with getting stronger. certain parts of my body, such as my pecs, always feel sore the next few days if I have tried hard. the rest, I may get the odd ache the next day when I change my program but after that. no pain. I am definitely getting stronger.

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    Another informative article from him, as usual. "A weighted sled has no eccentric component, thus no soreness." Yeah, but the "lungs-on-fire feeling" mine gives me makes up for that .

    And I've noticed that Rip's comments after his PJ articles are a lot less abrasive than the answers in his Q&A forum. I guess that's from the mostly old people on the former asking better questions than the mostly young people on the latter.
    In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

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    Good ol' Rip is chasing some straw men in that article, but yeah bicycling and deadlifts will not make you very sore, the latter because people drop the bar due to Crossfit gurus and Rip himself has said it’s a good idea to limit the eccentrics for better performance! In my own lifting philosophy I consider the eccentrics to be even more important than the concentric's and I am not afraid of getting a little sore…
    Last edited by Gorbag; 06-19-2014 at 07:53 PM.
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    RichMahogany's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    I am not afraid of getting a little sore…
    Accuse of strawman, counter with your own strawman. Brilliant work, Mr. G.
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  7. #7
    OldSchhool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Good ol' Rip is chasing some straw men in that article, but yeah bicycling and deadlifts will not make you very sore, the latter because people drop the bar due to Crossfit gurus and Rip himself has said it’s a good idea to limit the eccentrics for better performance! In my own lifting philosophy I consider the eccentrics to be even more important than the concentric's and I am not afraid of getting a little sore…
    I think the eccentric component is the most productive part of the rep.
    Eccentric training is also known as ‘negative’ training simply because it is the opposite of traditional concentric training, which has always been labelled ‘positive’. In the positive training phase the weight is raised which means that the muscle shortens as it works. In the negative phase the opposite happens: the weight is resisted as it is lowered, which means that the muscle lengthens as it works. Negative training has many benefits (the summary below is a condensation of findings from a number of studies made over the two last decades. The most significant studies and review articles are referenced at the end of this publication):




    •Muscles can work with much higher loads eccentrically than concentrically; a greater load means more efficient workout and faster results.
    •More work can be done eccentrically in less time; to improve muscle strength you have to overload the muscle (progressive training) and because the eccentric loads are greater, the muscles fatigue (reach failure) sooner.
    •Eccentric work forces the muscle to work in the fast twitch mode; this results in increased explosive performance.
    •There is greater neural adaptation to eccentric training compared with concen tric training, along with a corresponding higher level of neural activity in each motor unit; the motor unit is the nerve cell controlling the action of a part of a muscle.
    •Strength gains obtained through eccentric work will carry over to concentric work (cross education); but not vice versa!
    •Compared with concentric training, strength gains from eccentric training will be maintained longer while de-training; muscle built using eccentric training (as opposed to using concentric training) is better able to withstand the breakdown process that starts when muscles rest.
    •Eccentric work requires less oxygen than concentric, thus taxing the heart less; the slow eccentric phase does, however, tend to increase blood pressure during the workout.
    •Eccentric training works the entire joint structure; this results in increased strength, stability, and range of motion as well as improved healing ability.
    •Most preventive and post surgical physiotherapy is now eccentrically-based; muscles are forced to work under greater loads and this makes them more stable which in turn benefits joint structures; eccentric training gives more stimulation to the so called passive structures – bones, ligaments, tendons and cartilage – making them stronger and healing them faster and better.

  8. #8
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    It's called sorexercising. I know tons of people who believe being sore = a good workout. What's worse, they believe not sore = bad workout. These people start some new thing, get sore, think it's awesome, "oh yeah, that X300 Ultra Ab Ripper routine is great, I can barely walk today!", only to not realize that months later it does nothing, and they move to some other new sorexercise routine.

    The thing is, since you can effectively get stronger without getting really sore, why would you intentionally make yourself more sore? I don't get it.

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    While I agree that sore != good workout, why is it that when I lift weights I'm almost always sore? Does good workout = never sore?
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 180 x 2. Current Deadlift: 230 x 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    While I agree that sore != good workout, why is it that when I lift weights I'm almost always sore? Does good workout = never sore?

    Nope, you can have a good workout that makes you sore, or a good workout that doesn't. You can have a bad workout that makes you sore, or a bad workout that doesn't. There's just no 100% correlation, like most people seem to think.

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