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Thread: No, I don't need more carbs. page 3

  1. #21
    Tom B-D's Avatar
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    I can't contribute to the diabetes discussion, but wanted to comment on the higher carb suggestions from the forum--there is a very vocal contingent, even more so a few months back, with a herd of them jumping to suggest higher carb eating frequently. After hearing so much of it back in the winter, I tried that route as well, gained weight, felt worse. I'm back to around 75g/day, feeling better, losing fat. So, yeah, just because you hear something a lot doesn't mean it's a good idea for YOU. Glad you started the thread and are getting helpful feedback.

  2. #22
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    I'm not sure how much I can contribute at this point but I have been diabetic(type II) for nine years and on metformin for seven. I took insulin during my pregnancy. I am a fifth generation diabetic. My family was getting diabetes when they were hardworking farmers and fishermen. The endocrinologist feels that my diabetes is purely genetic and not lifestyle. I have worked hard for good control and saw it slipping away from me even though I hadn't changed anything. When I talked it over with the endo she said that it simply may be the disease progressing despite my best efforts. Not what I wanted to hear. I would second having your insulin levels checked because you simply may be unable to produce enough anymore. Unfortunately that is the progression of the disease. I saw it happen with my mom and my grandparents and they all ended up on insulin. I also saw it when I was pregnant with my son. I was eating so little that I was losing weight and my blood sugars just kept rising. Feeding more carbs to a diabetic is generally insanity. One other thought is that illness and infection can do nasty things to your blood sugar so I would also ask the doc to rule that out as well. I had an abcessed tooth pulled(I was a single parent working restaurant and couldn't afford a root canal) and my blood sugar went to record highs for me and stayed there for 24 hours. Good luck, I understand your struggle far too well.

  3. #23
    Paleophil's Avatar
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    Hedonist2, another fellow LCer who like you and me did not fare well with so-called "safe starches" is Steve Cooksey. Like me, he experienced BG improvements from resistant starch, which he tried only after kicking and screaming against it, as he himself acknowledged.
    "This is NOT a post about ‘safe starches‘, some believe that there are safe starches, foods like white potatoes, rice, sweet potatoes. All I know is, they have not been safe for me.

    ... This post is about ‘resistant starch’ (RS)."

    - Steve Cooksey, My Personal N=1 Resistant Starch Experiment
    Other diabetics were influenced by the positive results of Steve and Richard Nikoley and others to try incorporating more prebiotics in their diets, and some reported rather remarkable results. For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingvildr View Post
    Feeding more carbs to a diabetic is generally insanity.
    That seems intuitive and I used to think that too. I learned the hard way that that bit of LC dogma is misleading. I never had BG issues until after I had been eating VLC for some years. I still eat LC, but not VLC, and I am now careful to include more prebiotics in my diet, with much better BG numbers than my VLC days (though still not perfect). While I was never officially diagnosed as diabetic, both T1 and T2 diabetes run in my family and in my VLC days I had multiple BG numbers that were in the diabetic range, including one that went off the scale of the meter (and the instructions that I didn't read until later said that I should go to an emergency room immediately!)--vs. none in that range so far since adding more prebiotics to my diet (knock on wood ).

    Not all carbs are the same. Check out trehalose (aka "mushroom sugar"), for example:
    Search on "tardigrades" (water bears) with "trehalose" to get a sense of just how amazing of a carb trehalose is.

    Surely even most LCers won't be against eating the carb known as animal starch, aka glycogen (Glycogen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)?
    Last edited by Paleophil; 06-20-2014 at 06:46 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedonist2 View Post
    I thought Metformin was one of the good meds.
    Again, let me stress . . . NOT a medical professional of any kind.

    My issue with Metformin (and this is my own opinion, I've not seen any science to verify or support this opinion in any way shape or form) is it mucks about with the liver and I am of the personal opinion that anything that mucks about with the liver is probably a bad thing if Metabolic Syndrome already has your liver working overtime (as was my case in particular).

    That said, Primal keeps my BG in line (or has so far), so I'm really *not* in your shoes . . .

    I do not know if the body can build up a *resistance* to Metformin so that it stops being optimally effective, but you might want to research that angle as well, or ask your doctor.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brahnamin View Post
    My issue with Metformin (and this is my own opinion, I've not seen any science to verify or support this opinion in any way shape or form) is it mucks about with the liver and I am of the personal opinion that anything that mucks about with the liver is probably a bad thing if Metabolic Syndrome already has your liver working overtime (as was my case in particular).
    Yes, it is hard on the liver, an important consideration. I am doing things to protect it.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleophil View Post
    Ventricular tachycardia and BG measures above 200 and even 350 and unresponsive to insulin are serious health problems. Do you have any idea what contributed to your initial rapid rise of BG >200 or the tachycardia? Your diet at the time of PB plus potatoes, white rice, bananas, etc. seems relatively reasonable. It's something of a puzzle why things should have turned dramatically worse. Does your physician have any ideas yet about what the problem(s) might be? Your unusual example seems like one we could learn something from.

    I'm not a physician, not prescribing, and don't know what is going to work for you--FWIW, If it were me, I would be checking both my fasting and post-meal BG and trying to keep the BG spikes below 160 (roughly the figure suggested by Chris Kresser, Stephan Guyenet, Paul Jaminet, Kurt Harris and others) or so to avoid organ damage (but I don't advocate going to the extremes that Dr. Bernstein recommends).

    Like you, the 3 day carb up with "safe" carbs didn't work for me when I developed high and rising FBG and post-meal BG (in my case, while eating a VLC diet), nor did gradual increase of carbs over time. FWIW, I found that prebiotics, especially resistant starch, seem to have done the most to bring my post-meal BG spikes and FBG down, though I wouldn't say my overall health and fitness is ideal, so I'm not pretending that it was a panacea. Other people have reported that probiotics also helped.
    The v tach apparently was caused by scar tissue from angina 11 years ago. I've agreed to get an implanted cardiac defibrillator. Not thrilled by that but seems like the thing to do.

    BG 117 today after heavy workout. Too soon to know if it will last. Had meat and potatoes for breakfast, then nothing until 1:30 after workout. Took BG before eating lunch.

    I always have high BG after major health event in hospital. Not that high though.
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  7. #27
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    Best wishes for better health going forward.

    BTW, some of the above people I mentioned suggested aiming for a peak BG goal significiantly lower than 160 mg/dl at 1 hour postprandial, IIRC, but I went with the consensus higher figure. Even the more pro-carb blogger, Carbsane, seemed OK with this study that showed most people's 1 hour OGTT results not rising much above 160-170 and falling below 120 at 2 hours and she wrote: "having a BG over 140 at the 2 hour mark for this test is cause for concern." The Carb-Sane Asylum: Blood Sugar 140: Context is Everything II: The OGTT So trying not to generally exceed BG around 160-170 at 1 hour and 120-140 at 2 hours seem like reasonable targets for many people, with some diabetics perhaps having to settle for looser targets.

    Ironically, it was LC diet advocates' advice to get a BG monitor and warnings to keep pp BG below 160 or lower (Dr. William Davis even suggested in 2010 that "Risk may begin with postprandial glucoses as low as 100 mg/dl"!!! Blood sugar: Fasting vs. postprandial) and FBG below 110 or lower (Dr. David Perlmutter even said to keep it below 95, Key Dietary Strategies to Protect Yourself from Alzheimer's) that was one of the key things that clued me in that there was something wrong with VLC for me, for it was while I was VLC that I developed BG numbers exceeding those numbers, and they kept on rising over time, and the recommendation by some of them to eat some potatoes for 3 days to enable passing an OGTT to fake out your doc and then go back to eating VLC did not work, which was another clue. Carb advocates were actually generally less concerned with BG. So the advice of LCers was more damning of VLC than that of pro-carbers. It's one of the paradoxes of the macronutrient wars.
    Last edited by Paleophil; 06-22-2014 at 06:41 AM.

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