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Thread: Fast food: Is there ANY actual evidence/science that it's unhealthy ?? page 8

  1. #71
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    Nutritional science is such a joke, as OP has without a shred of shame demonstrated throughout this entire thread as someone who understands neither experimental design nor statistics, instead wishing to engage in worthless correlation hunts. Don't worry though, OP, you're not alone in this endeavor, as even the academics teach this same practice. For someone who is obsessed with pointing out logical fallacies, you sure commit several, turning your accusations of fallacies into non sequiturs. You're going to need to put more effort into this.

    Do you know how ridiculous it sounds on a logical, no, scientific level, when you say "the fact no one is dropping dead from this is proof it's not harmful"? Let's say the hypothesis presented is H(following Bayesian update), and we have access to specific pieces of evidence 1, 2, and 3, but we do not have access to proof X, then the rational probability estimate is the result of said update. You can't therefore say, "there is no proof of X, so I'm going to throw 1, 2, and 3 out the window until you prove X." This is just not how it works at all. In your search for absolute empirical proof, you have set the standards for proof so high that it's impossible for science to provide, and now you've used this to enter into a pointless philosophical debate where you can win an argument by trying to submerge your opponent under impossible burden of proof. By this standard, you might as well ignore mathematical proofs also, there is no reason why it's any less epistemically wrong to ignore a probability than to ignore a certainty.

    All this said, nutritional science is hard to study properly unless you lock someone in a room and force-feed them for years. It has a long track record of being unhelpful and unscientific. Beyond the identification of essential nutrients and don't eat so much you'll get fat, there is not much to gain from it.
    nihil

  2. #72
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    Yes, well aware of the sugar research.. I watched the Lustig lecture when that NYT article came out. Also have read all of Taubes' work. Have been doing low carb since the 1990s.

    The real interesting thing to me, is just how religious (leap of faith with flimsy evidence or proof) the whole nutrition thing is. Its a form of identity, which can not be challenged... It goes far deeper then facts... Party line echo chamber worth no dissenting viewpoint. But when challenged prove their viewpoint, they can't. They just believe, however they got there....

    I saw SuperSize me. Complete straw man propaganda...You can eat until you vomit at Whole Foods just the same..It proves nothing!

    I am interested in seeing any analysis that shows WHY fast food is bad. If anyone can find them.
    Does not have to be instant recall.
    What are the proven claims beyond "It's just yucky!! waah!"
    * It contains metal and plastic?
    * Pink slime contains entire liquefied chickens (Is that actually bad?)
    * It contains toxic levels of preservatives and arsenic?
    * etc etc

    And where do people come up with these ludicrous calorie estimates? A small burger is 250 calories. Small salad is 100 calories. Yet, food snobs (which is the very heart of this insecurity/identity) will react saying "That's GROSSSSS!"
    Why? It's 350 calories? So, it ain't the calories. Is there plutonium in the food? I want to know.

    A Big Mac has 550 calories. About the same as coffee, that Greek yogurt bullshit, and some nuts. Yet, somehow that's ok. You are still relying on the calories/portion control argument. I am not debating that. Eating 60 lbs of Kale will also kill you. I agree that's bad. Overeating anything is bad.

    What makes you think fast food is bad? Particularly if you avoid fries and soda? And exercise portion control? IS there plutonium in the meat?
    Last edited by OnlyBodyWeight; 05-08-2014 at 06:53 PM.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    I'm kind of surprised that people can afford to eat fast foods daily, it adds up.
    My Primal food for one day costs about $13.00. This is for 1400 expensive calories: organic, grass fed, farmer's market meat, veg, and berries (plus a little whey powder).
    The grocery store version of the same daily diet, ie CAFO, non-organic, is about $9.75.
    A Combo lunch meal at McD's is upwards of $6.59. Add in a coffee and a Ho-Ho and suddenly that fast food costs as much as grocery store primal.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

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    The issue w/ Pink Slime was ammonium hydroxide, which is a known toxin. However, specifically w/ regard to Chicken McNuggets that's not how they make it any more. I think they changed a decade or more ago.

    Here's what's in the bun and special sauce of a big mac. Preservatives, HFCS and other ingredients that are probably not good for you.

    Big Mac Bun:
    Ingredients: Enriched Flour (Bleached Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, High Fructose
    Corn Syrup and/or Sugar, Yeast, Soybean Oil and/or Canola Oil, Contains 2% or Less: Salt, Wheat Gluten, Calcium Sulfate, Calcium Carbonate, Ammonium Sulfate,
    Ammonium Chloride, Dough Conditioners (May Contain One or More of: Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, DATEM, Ascorbic Acid, Azodicarbonamide, Mono and
    Diglycerides, Ethoxylated Monoglycerides, Monocalcium Phosphate, Enzymes, Guar Gum, Calcium Peroxide), Sorbic Acid (Preservative), Calcium Propionate and/or
    Sodium Propionate (Preservatives), Soy Lecithin, Sesame Seed.
    CONTAINS: WHEAT AND SOY LECITHIN.
    Big Mac Sauce:
    Ingredients: Soybean Oil, Pickle Relish (Diced Pickles, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Sugar, Vinegar, Corn Syrup, Salt, Calcium Chloride, Xanthan Gum, Potassium
    Sorbate [Preservative], Spice Extractives, Polysorbate 80), Distilled Vinegar, Water, Egg Yolks, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Onion Powder, Mustard Seed, Salt,
    Spices, Propylene Glycol Alginate, Sodium Benzoate (Preservative), Mustard Bran, Sugar, Garlic Powder, Vegetable Protein (Hydrolyzed Corn, Soy and Wheat),
    Caramel Color, Extractives of Paprika, Soy Lecithin, Turmeric (Color), Calcium Disodium EDTA (Protect Flavor).

    So I randomly looked up one of the ingredients that I couldn't pronounce:
    In the UK, the Health and Safety Executive has identified azodicarbonamide as a respiratory sensitizer (a possible cause of asthma) in workplace settings and determined that containers of it should be labeled with "May cause sensitisation by inhalation."[12] The World Health Organization has linked azodicarbonamide to "respiratory issues, allergies and asthma" for individuals at workplaces where azodicarbonamide is manufactured or handled in raw form. The available data are restricted to these occupational environments. Exposure of the general public to azodicarbonamide could not be evaluated because of the lack of available data
    A friend looked up ACTUAL INGREDIENTS. Which no one here was able to do. Some weird sounding elements. What I'd now like to know is exactly what dosage of those elements is actually unsafe. Are they in trace amounts? We get daily doses of radioactivity from the sun, for example. But, people still live 86 years. So, just how bad are those preservatives, if the question. Are they so trivial that is doesn't matter? One drop of arsenic on a silo of wheat might not amount to anything. You also have toxic chemicals in your drinking water. Been drinking that for decades years, with no issues.

  5. #75
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    Yes, because if you eat fast food, you are required to eat Ho-ho's.
    Typical food snob with self-esteem & identity issues?

  6. #76
    oxide's Avatar
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    Go to McD's for a coffee and a hash brown in a paper packet for breakfast, go back for a combo meal for lunch, go to the drive through for a McD's coke and apple pie in a paper packet after work and suddenly that fast food costs as much a grocery store Primal.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  7. #77
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    Maybe somebody should define fast food“ here? Is chicken breast and salad from McDonalds „fast food“? What about a milk shake?
    Being just an old fashioned guy myself; I’m beyond tired of all these fragile mama boys (and girls!) with powder in their gluteus and soft pillows under their arm pits that cannot recover from their 3 days a week abbreviated “strength” routine…

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    A friend looked up ACTUAL INGREDIENTS. Which no one here was able to do. Some weird sounding elements. What I'd now like to know is exactly what dosage of those elements is actually unsafe. Are they in trace amounts? We get daily doses of radioactivity from the sun, for example. But, people still live 86 years. So, just how bad are those preservatives, if the question. Are they so trivial that is doesn't matter? One drop of arsenic on a silo of wheat might not amount to anything. You also have toxic chemicals in your drinking water. Been drinking that for decades years, with no issues.
    We don't know. They probably aren't as bad as the chem-trail morgellons detox weirdos who won't eat science food because they don't understand what's in it and get frightened at the sight of chemicals will have us believe. We're getting to the age where these things are necessary. My problem wasn't with your premise, but rather with the rhetoric. Check out how scary this egg is:

    nihil

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    A friend looked up ACTUAL INGREDIENTS. Which no one here was able to do.
    apparently that includes yourself.

    Some weird sounding elements.
    btw, mono- and diglycerides, which are in just about everything at fast food places (if you knew how to use google you would know this too) are basically another form of trans fats.

    What I'd now like to know is exactly what dosage of those elements is actually unsafe. Are they in trace amounts? We get daily doses of radioactivity from the sun, for example. But, people still live 86 years.
    and to that age with what quality of life? one big mac might not kill you on the spot, but the inflammation is insidious and leads to major health issues down the line -- diseases people accept as part of getting older, rather than admitting they are caused by lifestyle-- like diabetes and heart disease.

    So, just how bad are those preservatives, if the question. Are they so trivial that is doesn't matter? One drop of arsenic on a silo of wheat might not amount to anything. You also have toxic chemicals in your drinking water. Been drinking that for decades years, with no issues.
    tu mihi male.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    – Ernest Hemingway

  10. #80
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    I'm still waiting for a reason why I should choose fast-food over food I cook myself.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    I can squat 180lbs, press 72.5lbs and deadlift 185lbs

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