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Thread: Fast food: Is there ANY actual evidence/science that it's unhealthy ?? page 6

  1. #51
    OnlyBodyWeight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Yawn.....

    There are no RCT's that I know of that prove jumping from an airplane with no parachute will lead to injury or death. Imagine that? No PROOF! And all this time I've been avoiding jumping with no parachute with no evidence....silly me.

    OP...read some books on nutrition. Or read the PB even! Or a couple of hundred of Marks blog posts. You seem to have a problem with assimilating data to reach a logical conclusion. Maybe you should work on it.
    Again, shocking lack of logic on this forum.
    Jumping out of a plane will guarantee to kill you.
    Not one person has dropped dead in a fast food restaurant.
    On the contrary, billions of people eat it, and live.

    I have read everything by Taubes, Weil, Nestle, Pollan, Atkins, et al.
    I have read over 3 dozen books on nutrition in the last 20 years.


    Quote Originally Posted by bilbo2 View Post
    Cheap, inferior frankenfood that is tarted up to taste good to the masses who are not used to real food. Once you know what real, honest food tastes like and have a steady diet of it, the cheap thrill of fast food and its inferiority is apparent. It has been a long time since I indulged but I remember the sick feeling after the first few bites. Also the last time (Subway) I had itching all over my body afterward, likely from additives used to keep the veg "fresh".
    Millions of people eat Subway sandwiches and do not break out in hives.
    This is clearly your issue, and it's comical to blame Subway for your allergies.
    This is like crashing your car in New Jersey, and then saying the tires they sell in NJ are defective.
    You should consult a doctor, as you seem to have health issues normal people do not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    God damnit, I lost what I was writing. I don't feel like redoing it, so I'll give you the cliff's notes wall of text without the references. Fast food is high in fat, low in micronutrients, fiber and antioxidants, and uses unhealthy cooking methods like deep frying. When you eat a meal at a fast food restaurant, you're essentially eating nothing but macronutrients alone, which is proinflammatory. That's bad because chronic, low-grade inflammation is pretty well agreed upon to be the cause of major metabolic diseases such as obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and neurodegenerative disease. That's also bad because the agent of your undoing actually lives in your intestines - your gut bacteria. Lipopolysaccharide (endotoxin) is a glycolipid outer layer of gram-negative bacteria, of which there are billions in your body at any given time. When you eat an inflammatory meal, it can alter the expression of genes that regulate the permeability of your intestines. That's bad because there's only a thin layer of cells between your intestines and the rest of you, so when endotoxins are translocated, either through a leaky gut or through the lymphatic system after a high-fat meal - like you'd get at a fast food restaurant - they bind to a pattern recognition receptor called toll-like receptor 4. That triggers inflammation down the line through a variety of mechanisms I don't fully understand because I'm not a scientist. Suffice it to say it's bad, and it happens on a per-meal basis. Endotoxemia is an inevitable result of eating and being alive, and eating good food with fiber and antioxidants lowers your burden of endotoxemia, if you will, because they protect against intestinal permeability and oxidative stress. Once oxidative stress and endotoxemia do their work on your adipose tissue - and they will - the inflammation and stress simply builds upon itself. Your fat stores start releasing inflammatory cytokines, you become insulin resistant, and your organs slowly become damaged over the course of your lifetime. I left out a lot of details, but that's your basic primer.

    If you want references (you probably don't), go to Pubmed and search for these things: "low-grade inflammation", "TLR4 AND inflammation", "metabolic endotoxemia", "IL-1B", "TNF-a", "inflammasomes"
    And all that doesn't even touch on lipotoxicity, glucotoxicity or hormones. That's just innate immunity.
    You frankly sound like a new age herbal remedy snake oil salesman.
    Those people parrot lots of science sounding words, dropped out of quackery school, try to sound like doctors, but do not understand anything they are parroting.
    Most people do not have any issues with their intestines after eating fast food.
    Your post above is nothing but gibberish. Do you also speak in tongues?

    MOST fast food is NOT deep fried.
    I have already addressed the deep frying issue.
    That is already off the table.

    Can you explain what you mean by macronutrients alone?
    How is fast food different from the Whole Foods buffet in terms of isolating macro-nutrients?
    And how does this cause "inflammation"? What exactly is being inflamed? What is the science at work?


    Quote Originally Posted by accidentalpancake View Post
    As Laz pointed out, if you want to pull out your college formal logic textbook, there's no point in discussing this further. You may, however, want to apply the concepts to your own stance.
    Wow, so logic is not welcome in a debate. That pretty much sums everything up. You have nothing to stand on except emotion and brainwashed Paleo dogma religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    That was my point. Avoid fast-food with trans fats.
    I thought trans fats were banned years ago.
    I know for a fact that McDonald's stopped using trans fats.
    They have been removed from about 75% of the food supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    The OP clearly doesn't have a very discerning palette if he thinks manufactured flavors taste good. So I say go for it shovell it down your gullet! Bon appetite!

    Meanwhile I've got a slow roasting grass fed sirloin tip roast, smothered in herbs from my garden cooking. I will deglaze the pan with homemade beef broth and red wine and when we eat our dinner my family will savour every bite and give thanks that we don't have to eat factory made food products prepared by soulless machines. Is it our meal proven to be healthier? I have no idea but I do know that eating food that is lovingly grown and prepared nourishes the spirit.
    LOL, many people think steak is boring food. Bland as hell. That's why they douse it with salt, pepper, butter, and steak sauce.
    Have you really brainwashed yourself into thinking your dry broccoli tastes better than ice cream? Power on!

    Oh, and all wine and alcohol is toxic poison for you. Stop cooking with it. Healthy wine is just more brainwashing for the masses.


    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    is there any evidence that it's NOT unhealthy?
    checkmate.
    This logical fallacy is actually called "argumentum ad ignorantiam" (Argument from ignorance)
    Lack of evidence in one direction does not prove the opposite.
    Since I can't prove god does not exist, that does not mean god exists.

    But, in fact, I can actually prove fast food is healthy for you.
    The control will be a person eating no food. Starvation.
    The experiment will be a person eating fast food.
    After about 50 to 70 days, the zero food subject will die.
    There are many documented cases of people living long past 50 days after eating strictly fast food (and this is not controlled for sensible portion control)
    Conclusion: Fast food is literally healthy and nutritious.
    Last edited by OnlyBodyWeight; 05-07-2014 at 05:08 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    I am interested in finding intelligent people who have a background in science and logic to explore this media brainwashing that "fast food is rat poison".
    I think that 'nutrient density' is at least part of the answer:


    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    So far, the evidence provided here is very flimsy and very selective. And mostly ad hominem, straw man, false analogy, and emotional faith based dogma (Yes, it's obvious that eating 5 lbs of french fries is bad for you) I bet this is a very religious forum. Jesus saves!
    Hey, I agree with what I think you are trying to say here. It might very well be that eating wheat is very bad for you. Maybe it's because it causes intestinal permeability. Maybe it's another aspect of gluten. Maybe it's because it's an acellular carbohydrate. Maybe it's the modern dwarf wheat. Maybe it's modern yeasts. Maybe it's.... evil spirits! People can be doing the right thing for the wrong reasons and still be doing the right thing. Doesn't mean that you have to drink the kool-aide on their faulty explanations of the underlying causes.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    I find it fascinating that people actually think fast food tastes bad.
    This is bassic science. Fast food is engineered to taste PERFECT and be addictive.
    Sugar, salt, fat. It's got the trifecta. This is not controversial.
    And THIS, reads to me like Food Reward theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    People LOVE fast food. Everyone "knows" its bad for you, so do you think they eat it b/c it's rancid? LMFAO.
    Of course not. They eat it because they like it. One of the reasons that they *shouldn't* eat it because it's rancid. Yes?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    Broccoli tastes like cardboard and must be forced down people's throats for a reason! This is NOT rocket science, folks! (It's self-brainwashing?)
    That's not true. Our kids eat 'green trees' and while they complain about vegetables in a linear pattern relating to the sugar content of said vegetables, they also eat an astonishing amount of vegetable when they are out compared to other kids.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    Everyone seems to point out "fried" is the crux of the anti-fast food dogma religion.
    Not me. 'Whole foods' is the dogma for me. And even then I'm experimenting with making sourdough pizza bases using Kombucha as the lactobacillis starter (which is heresy to some on here). Like you, I'm interested in the 'why' of things being good and bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    What do you mean by "not coming from good quality sources"? How does this contribute to an endless craving cycle? When I have eaten fast food, I feel stuffed and do not eat for many hours afterwards.
    So here you are citing your n=1 as an arguement? I think it's pretty self evident that people can easily overeat when eating low nutrition/high calorie foods.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    Again, shocking lack of logic on this forum.
    Jumping out of a plane will guarantee to kill you.
    Not one person has dropped dead in a fast food restaurant.
    On the contrary, billions of people eat it, and live.
    It's more of a lifetime achievement award.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    You frankly sound like a new age herbal remedy snake oil salesman.
    That's a pretty abrasive response given the quality of Tim's post. Why are you wanting to lower the level of discourse in this way?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    Those people parrot lots of science sounding words, dropped out of quackery school, try to sound like doctors, but do not understand anything they are parroting.
    Just because YOU didn't understand what he was saying doesn't mean that he doesn't. If you want to have a fact based discussion, why not pick on a fact based statement Tim made and dispute it? All you are doing is spewing ad-hominems around. It's almost like you're trying to kill discussion in your own thread. Is this thread just a form of entertainment for you, or are you actually seeking meaningful discussion?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    Can you explain what you mean by macronutrients alone?
    I think the nutrient density video I linked to covers it. Basically you need a whole bunch of vitamins and minerals along with your food, and so eating foods which provide calories but lack vitamins and minerals can be called 'nutrient poor', because your body is prompted to 'overgraze' in an attempt to get enough of the missing vitamins and minerals.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    How is fast food different from the Whole Foods buffet in terms of isolating macro-nutrients?
    If you eat a range of whole foods you are much more likely to recieve a decent coverage of said vitamins and minerals.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    And how does this cause "inflammation"? What exactly is being inflamed? What is the science at work?
    Sorry, what are you saying here? That you don't know how inflammation works in the body, or that you don't see the point of avoiding inflammatory foods?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    I thought trans fats were banned years ago.
    I know for a fact that McDonald's stopped using trans fats.
    Yes, they replaced them with Interesterfied fats, which are basically just trans fats with an ester in the middle. That's ok though, since the 'science' proving that Interesteried fats is bad for you is still in the pipeline, there's no overwheling public outcry yet about using the cheapest and nastiest fats to cook with. </sarcasm>

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    Have you really brainwashed yourself into thinking your dry broccoli tastes better than ice cream? Power on!
    Personally I like both salt and cheese on my broccoli.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    Oh, and all wine and alcohol is toxic poison for you. Stop cooking with it. Healthy wine is just more brainwashing for the masses.
    Uh... You know that the alcohol evaporates when you cook with it, right?
    Last edited by magicmerl; 05-07-2014 at 05:52 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

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    Just out of curiosity but does this guy sound like Giantsbran's slightly older brother (maybe a freshman in college)? For someone so interested in debate in a scientific manner he seems to be having difficulty with basic terminology such as "inflammation" and "macro nutrients" and has reverted to name calling (Jesus saves and snake oil salesman).

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    Quote Originally Posted by jenna View Post
    Just out of curiosity but does this guy sound like Giantsbran's slightly older brother (maybe a freshman in college)? For someone so interested in debate in a scientific manner he seems to be having difficulty with basic terminology such as "inflammation" and "macro nutrients" and has reverted to name calling (Jesus saves and snake oil salesman).
    Yes.
    "...You sort of start thinking anything's possible if you've got enough nerve. -Ginny

    My story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/i-now...#axzz2MzPtxo00

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenna View Post
    Just out of curiosity but does this guy sound like Giantsbran's slightly older brother (maybe a freshman in college)? For someone so interested in debate in a scientific manner he seems to be having difficulty with basic terminology such as "inflammation" and "macro nutrients" and has reverted to name calling (Jesus saves and snake oil salesman).
    I think that there's a danger in finding one wrong or incorrect thing a person says and then dismissing everything they have to say because of it. I see it from multiple posters in this thread.

    You're right that the OP could have a little more humility in how he phrases things and try not to steer the discussion away from polite discourse by flaming people, but that doesn't mean that he needs to accept someone else's pseudoscience unquestioningly.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  6. #56
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    Fast food: Is there ANY actual evidence/science that it's unhealthy ??

    Giantsbran, is that you? You must be really bored.


    Sent from....right behind you....
    You are an animal on this planet and the rules of engagement are non negotiable.

  7. #57
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    I'm all for not accepting anything unquestionably. My problem is with his apparent lack of ability/desire to communicate in a civilized way. Questions are good, asking for evidence is good. This is not either of those. This sounds more like someone was bored on a lovely Wednesday and decided to just stir the pot for their own entertainment.

  8. #58
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    Yeah, maybe. I guess I'll see if/when he responds to my posts.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    Not one person has dropped dead in a fast food restaurant.....
    You sure bout that there? Seems an awfully bold claim. Think you could prove it?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    I have read everything by Taubes, Weil, Nestle, Pollan, Atkins, et al.
    I have read over 3 dozen books on nutrition in the last 20 years...
    Yet you remain so ignorant? Bravo! It takes real dedication to read so much and comprehend so little...

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyBodyWeight View Post
    Again, shocking lack of logic on this forum.
    Jumping out of a plane will guarantee to kill you.
    Not one person has dropped dead in a fast food restaurant.
    On the contrary, billions of people eat it, and live.
    Hehe, since people are dropping dead in all kind of places I wouldn’t bet my last 2 cents on that statement! But even if some people dies in fast food restaurants; it does not automatically follow that the fast food killed them either...
    Whoever fights trolls should see to it that in the process he does not become a troll - for when you gaze long enough into the computer screen, the computer screen will gaze back into you!
    - Gorbag Nietzsche

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