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Thread: Joel Fuhrman vs Weston Price page 14

  1. #131
    Omni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beachgirl View Post
    I'm just giving information here. You make up your own mind.
    You are pushing a personal agenda, so just accept that's who you are, there's nothing neutral about what you write.
    "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Where vegans fit in this is that people who are willing to change their diet for reasons that have nothing whatever to do with eating enjoyment are on the end of the "food as pleasure" spectrum. They don't feel any connection between food and pleasure. They think we are wrong to use pleasure as a criteria for choosing food, because even if they do experience food cravings, they stifle them with willpower, and think we all should do that, too. And that's a disordered eating behavior.
    funnily enough, we were having "dinner" at a raw vegan place the other night. it's a block away, musician friends play there often so we do go a few times per month and tbh, the salads are delicious. the owner prefers to hire vegetarians and everybody that works there is pale and sickly thin with very dry hair.

    i don't know that vegetarians divorce themselves from eating pleasure. when i ate that way, meat really didn't taste all that good to me, so while i did NOT enjoy eating it, and never craved it, i LOVED a big pile of garlicky lentils. i also felt a sense of superiority because i totally knew that meat and fat were bad bad bad and would kill you dead.

    i think arrogance is a much greater factor than asceticism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beachgirl View Post
    Some famous long-term vegans would include T. Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstyn and Dr. John McDougall. My best friend saw McDougall in Houston a couple of weeks ago looking very healthy. He publishes a monthly newsletter with studies to back up his claims. He also archives them on his website if anyone is interested in the science. I'm just giving information here. You make up your own mind.
    somebody being thin is no indication of health. i was a twig as a vegetarian but constantly sick.

    as for studies backing up anybody's claims? i can find all sorts of papers telling me they have PROOF 9/11 was an inside job and the moon-landing was faked.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  3. #133
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    Whilst I was (and still) rarely ill and quite the fatass!

    M.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beachgirl View Post
    Some famous long-term vegans would include T. Colin Campbell, Caldwell Esselstyn and Dr. John McDougall. My best friend saw McDougall in Houston a couple of weeks ago looking very healthy. He publishes a monthly newsletter with studies to back up his claims. He also archives them on his website if anyone is interested in the science. I'm just giving information here. You make up your own mind.
    McDougall actually strikes me as the most reasonable vegan advocate, even if he comes across as personally crazy. From the videos I've watched and articles I've read, the foods he recommend form the bulk of the diet are plenty healthy: beans, sweet potatoes, corn, rice. There's nary a mention of wheat, which is refreshing coming from a community that seems to pride itself on eating as much wheat as possible. McDougall + meat is a fine diet, if you ask me.

    Or maybe I just like him because he looks like Gary Taubes.
    Last edited by Timthetaco; 04-29-2014 at 08:19 PM.

  5. #135
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    I have a lot of respect for Dr McDougall, who passionately cares about health; not just for himself, his family or even his personal patients. He extends his resources for free and also hosts Advanced Study Weekends, where top speakers, not all plant based give a mini-conference. His wish is to create a legacy of better health for humanity and he has worked for decades to this end. He is stridently anti-paleo and outspoken on this point. Believes that fat + meat make people fat and sick.

    Other docs I admire for their integrity: Dr Neal Barnard, a great health advocate and a charming speaker. Also Dr Alan Goldhamer, who has a water fasting centre that seems to be a helpful intervention for peeps coming off SAD in a controlled way. Dr Goldhamer is pretty feisty in attitude and insists that dairy and meat are bad for humans.

    Also co-conceived the book 'Pleasure Trap' with psychologist Doug Lisle. Which regardless of dietary orientation gives insight into the primal desire for calorie dense food and illuminates the junk food conumdrum - we know it makes us unwell and we can't stop eating it!

    Dr McDougall's protocols worked for me for a short while; I lost 14lbs and then multiple sensitivities arose. I was unable to eat legumes and most of the protein rich grains and pseudo-grains, white potatoes. Was left with few starchy options and large nutritional gaps. I can't say whether or not that diet caused or revealed the sensitivities.
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  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    funnily enough, we were having "dinner" at a raw vegan place the other night. it's a block away, musician friends play there often so we do go a few times per month and tbh, the salads are delicious. the owner prefers to hire vegetarians and everybody that works there is pale and sickly thin with very dry hair.

    i don't know that vegetarians divorce themselves from eating pleasure. when i ate that way, meat really didn't taste all that good to me, so while i did NOT enjoy eating it, and never craved it, i LOVED a big pile of garlicky lentils. i also felt a sense of superiority because i totally knew that meat and fat were bad bad bad and would kill you dead.

    i think arrogance is a much greater factor than asceticism.
    For many it is a factor. Also clearly many people who love to eat do go vegan or vegetarian. What I am saying is that people who don't especially like eating would be more prone to dietary restriction based on considerations that had nothing to do with eating enjoyment. These are people who seem to live on raw kale and dry oats when they go vegan. And they don't understand people who care about food more than sweet, innocent animals.

  7. #137
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    noodletoy said:



    somebody being thin is no indication of health. i was a twig as a vegetarian but constantly sick.

    as for studies backing up anybody's claims? i can find all sorts of papers telling me they have PROOF 9/11 was an inside job and the moon-landing was faked.


    I didn't say he looked "thin" I said he looked "healthy" as in good color in his cheeks, tan, no beer belly or muffin top. He did have some wrinkles though, probably from being in the sun.
    I'm sure you can find the studies you mention, but would they be from a credible source? Not hardly. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally. McDougall frequently quotes meta-analyses from the The Cochrane Collaboration. Look it up.

  8. #138
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    Outside the Box: Why are Cochrane reviews so boring?

    Honestly I have no idea in what context he likes to link to this summary database, but it has its issues.

  9. #139
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    Again, I say a blind squirrel can find a nut now and then. The link you posted is just that.

  10. #140
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    Beachgirl: if fruits and vegetables are so great, why did a low-fat high-fiber diet rich in fruits and vegetables show no benefit?

    Influence of a diet very high in vegetables, fruit, and... [JAMA. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

    Among survivors of early stage breast cancer, adoption of a diet that was very high in vegetables, fruit, and fiber and low in fat did not reduce additional breast cancer events or mortality during a 7.3-year follow-up period.

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