The past 5 pages of this thread is why "paleo" is a laughing stock in legitimate scientific communities and will never reach mainstream success. Which is probably for the best judging by how inept many of its followers are.
Scott, I like how you are the tome of knowledge of what our ancestors ate. You don't have a shred of evidence to back up anything you're saying other than blog posts from people that fall in line with your exact (incorrect) line of thinking). We have no idea what your health or physical conditions are, but you have lots of hypotheticals and incorrect assumptions. Let's take our advice from you.
Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.
It's true that sugar has been around a long time but the quantities that are consumed today by average people is pretty new. If you go back 100 yrs, people were not sipping sweet drinks all day, desserts were not an everyday thing and people did not snack on candy. Bananas were not commonly available and apples were a sweet treat only seasonable available. And the only fats used in cooking were animal, so things are pretty different today.
Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.
Every one has an opinion. It's carbs, no it's refined carbs, no it's HFCS's ,no it's PUFA's, no its the calories, no its the sedentary lifestyle, your not satiating with fat, etc, etc, they're all wrong. hell even the people who say everyone's different and we all need different solutions are wrong. My body is at least 99.99% similar to all you whom are reading this.
So what is it then? what is going wrong?
Its long winded but here goes. Hunger, food, nourishment it is the second most important thing to our lives behind air wich is constantly available. Your worried about your job, family, life, friends, money? Your body is worried about food, water and air. Food is so intrinsic to our behavioral patterns and our life choices, that it gets mostly forgoten by us in the white noise of far more but lesser impactful decisions. So in short, food is a big deal to us.
Whats the easiest way to train a dolphin or a dog? with food of course. Why does your cat form a bond with you and stays at your place? because it knows where the food comes from. Food reward, its massive, Sugary, Salty or Fatty foods (not sure if some reward better than others) are like drugs to us. Infact the reason recreational drugs become addictive is because they hijack the food reward systems our brains holdover from survival times.
So a large problem (half) with obesity is fighting ourselfs to disregard our food reward (and other) systems that are so entrenched in our psyche from the importance our bodies give to food. Why do we have to Fight these food choices? because there are some smart pricks somewhere, getting paid big bucks to deliver foods to our convenience, that trigger our reward systems in the biggest, quickest way possible. These food "engineers" don't usually give a stuff about the quality of the food, the only concern is that we are willing to pay alot of money to satisfy our primeval urges. This means our bodies default state is to eat the most rewarding food. Those of us that want to be healthy have to fight these urges fight the default state.
Alot of people stop there in their explanation of obesity, but i believe there is another (probably more important) factor at play. and it explains the carb and sugar phenomenon (lose weight by controlling sugar). here goes....
Our body's whole metabolism is run off only ONE determining factor, that is Blood Glucose levels. If it is at a certain level, certain things happen, if it is at a different level, different things happen. Basically one can say our metabolism aims to bring BG back to a basal level if it is detected to be away from that level. If our body detects BG above basal it stores all the energy and nutrients it can in various cells, if it detects below basal, it breaks down what ever it can into glucose or glucose sparing fuel (fats, ketones). These conditions are called anabolic (above basal) and catabolic (below basal) conditions. Our body is either anabolic or catabolic or switching over at all times. The ideal picture of human health is when neither of these 2 states are dominant, an example of dominant anabolic is an obese person, an example of a dominant catabolic state is a marathon runner or starving third worlder.
A person becomes obese because their bodies spend more time storing excess fuels in fat cells and other cells than they do breaking down those cells (obvious right?) but why does it store that energy? because it has detected higher glucose than basal in the blood<<< the only reason. The only way we can get excess glucose in the blood is by eating carbs, if we eat protein the body wont go into excess glucose too much because when it goes anabolic the body can no longer break down the aminos in the blood into glucose (catabolic process), eating fats wont put the body into above basal BG either. Ok this dont make us obese right? we can just wait till BG drops and go catabolic to release all the energy we stored from when we were anabolic (a few hours after our meal).
This is where I think the problem lies... I think because of the easy availability of food and its importance to us, with all our hunger signalling and food reward, the Anabolic/ catabolic balance gets hijacked by our own inherent laziness. Yes we are hardwired to take the easy route, the most energy conserving route. I believe what happens is that over time our bodies instead of tapping into our catabolic processes to arrest below basal BG, we (the fatties) get into the habit of just re-adding glucose to the blood by way of the mouth/stomach. This leads us to seek out foods that will re-raise our blood glucose (ie carbs and sugars). Conveniently those same food engineers realize this and have added a carb component to almost every factory produced food on the planet. All fast food joints have carbs in/with their meals, they mightn't be the largest macro present but they are there. combine this with the hyper palatable, hyper available foods mentioned above and you got a perfect storm of obesity and metabolic derangement.
If you want to reduce weight you have to start using your catabolic cycles again, infact you need to be in a daily catabolic excess <<< this is absolutely the only way to lose weight. You can't lose an ounce if your not in a catabolic state (ie BG below basal). This is why the primal blue print is so successful, because it basically helps you to retrain to use Glucagon (your catabolic hormone) again. The major blow ups you see from people on primal come because they are already catabolic more than enough, and are making themselfs more catabolic by reducing carbs.
A little primal gem - My Success Story
Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)
If keeping the BG level below basal level is the most important factor for being in catabolic state often (losing weight), then how do you explain the fact that millions lose weight quite successfully on high carbohydrate diets?
What is then the role of the dietary fat, the one macro that does not affect the BG levels? How do you explain weight (body fat) gain in people on ketogenic diets then?
Last edited by Graycat; 03-10-2014 at 09:51 AM.
Dietary fat is free to move into storage cells or fuel cells from the blood after eating. But it is not free to move out of those cells unless your body releases catabolic hormones to break it down, it can only do this when BG is below basal. People on keto rarely increase their fat stores, if they did it would be because they ate too many fat calories for the body to use up in day, this hard to do tho, because if you are good at being catabolic your body will easily tend to a balanced caloric state. Remember people are obese because their metabolism get lazy and don't want to do the reconverting of energy, leading to a constant fed state. Calories still matter though.
Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 03-10-2014 at 10:28 AM.
A little primal gem - My Success Story
Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)
If you don't think I can source that opinion what gives you hypocritical excuse to do so, Chaco....pot calling the kettle black.
Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?
Have any of you seen the pictures and read of what happened when white flour and sugar were introduced into native populations around the world? This would have been before the introduction of margarine around the world.
Nutrition and Physical Degeneration
Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3