Page 14 of 21 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 ... LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 201

Thread: Sugar definitely worst thing say same people who said it was definitely fat page 14

  1. #131
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,659
    Shop Now
    Quote Originally Posted by Dann View Post
    still,
    i'm still not seeing what's bad about it (assuming they aren't drank into excess)
    So you are saying that year 1901 levels of ingestion should be OK in a caloric deficit? Ummmm, that's all well and good, but that is not our current reality.

  2. #132
    Dann's Avatar
    Dann is offline Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    So you are saying that year 1901 levels of ingestion should be OK in a caloric deficit? Ummmm, that's all well and good, but that is not our current reality.
    Not understanding the question

    mind if ya re word it? por favor

  3. #133
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,614
    The past 5 pages of this thread is why "paleo" is a laughing stock in legitimate scientific communities and will never reach mainstream success. Which is probably for the best judging by how inept many of its followers are.

    Scott, I like how you are the tome of knowledge of what our ancestors ate. You don't have a shred of evidence to back up anything you're saying other than blog posts from people that fall in line with your exact (incorrect) line of thinking). We have no idea what your health or physical conditions are, but you have lots of hypotheticals and incorrect assumptions. Let's take our advice from you.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  4. #134
    Urban Forager's Avatar
    Urban Forager is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    2,620
    It's true that sugar has been around a long time but the quantities that are consumed today by average people is pretty new. If you go back 100 yrs, people were not sipping sweet drinks all day, desserts were not an everyday thing and people did not snack on candy. Bananas were not commonly available and apples were a sweet treat only seasonable available. And the only fats used in cooking were animal, so things are pretty different today.
    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

  5. #135
    dilberryhoundog's Avatar
    dilberryhoundog is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    545
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Yup, take those puppies and put em in the 64oz 7/11 big guzzler and let people sip on them all day long non stop. Perfect storm of a constant fed state and a extraordinary HFCS load. Crappy seed oils don't get a pass, but to overlook this would be just criminal.

    Oh, and regardless of macro ratios...vending machines, fast food, convenience marts all contributing to that never ending "fed" state. I know you're a fan of this line of thought as well
    I was happy to just fuck with the PUFA pushers in this thread, but now that you've asked I might clarify my thoughts on this whole obesity and metabolic syndrome crisis.

    Every one has an opinion. It's carbs, no it's refined carbs, no it's HFCS's ,no it's PUFA's, no its the calories, no its the sedentary lifestyle, your not satiating with fat, etc, etc, they're all wrong. hell even the people who say everyone's different and we all need different solutions are wrong. My body is at least 99.99% similar to all you whom are reading this.

    So what is it then? what is going wrong?

    Its long winded but here goes. Hunger, food, nourishment it is the second most important thing to our lives behind air wich is constantly available. Your worried about your job, family, life, friends, money? Your body is worried about food, water and air. Food is so intrinsic to our behavioral patterns and our life choices, that it gets mostly forgoten by us in the white noise of far more but lesser impactful decisions. So in short, food is a big deal to us.
    Whats the easiest way to train a dolphin or a dog? with food of course. Why does your cat form a bond with you and stays at your place? because it knows where the food comes from. Food reward, its massive, Sugary, Salty or Fatty foods (not sure if some reward better than others) are like drugs to us. Infact the reason recreational drugs become addictive is because they hijack the food reward systems our brains holdover from survival times.

    So a large problem (half) with obesity is fighting ourselfs to disregard our food reward (and other) systems that are so entrenched in our psyche from the importance our bodies give to food. Why do we have to Fight these food choices? because there are some smart pricks somewhere, getting paid big bucks to deliver foods to our convenience, that trigger our reward systems in the biggest, quickest way possible. These food "engineers" don't usually give a stuff about the quality of the food, the only concern is that we are willing to pay alot of money to satisfy our primeval urges. This means our bodies default state is to eat the most rewarding food. Those of us that want to be healthy have to fight these urges fight the default state.



    Alot of people stop there in their explanation of obesity, but i believe there is another (probably more important) factor at play. and it explains the carb and sugar phenomenon (lose weight by controlling sugar). here goes....

    Our body's whole metabolism is run off only ONE determining factor, that is Blood Glucose levels. If it is at a certain level, certain things happen, if it is at a different level, different things happen. Basically one can say our metabolism aims to bring BG back to a basal level if it is detected to be away from that level. If our body detects BG above basal it stores all the energy and nutrients it can in various cells, if it detects below basal, it breaks down what ever it can into glucose or glucose sparing fuel (fats, ketones). These conditions are called anabolic (above basal) and catabolic (below basal) conditions. Our body is either anabolic or catabolic or switching over at all times. The ideal picture of human health is when neither of these 2 states are dominant, an example of dominant anabolic is an obese person, an example of a dominant catabolic state is a marathon runner or starving third worlder.

    A person becomes obese because their bodies spend more time storing excess fuels in fat cells and other cells than they do breaking down those cells (obvious right?) but why does it store that energy? because it has detected higher glucose than basal in the blood<<< the only reason. The only way we can get excess glucose in the blood is by eating carbs, if we eat protein the body wont go into excess glucose too much because when it goes anabolic the body can no longer break down the aminos in the blood into glucose (catabolic process), eating fats wont put the body into above basal BG either. Ok this dont make us obese right? we can just wait till BG drops and go catabolic to release all the energy we stored from when we were anabolic (a few hours after our meal).

    This is where I think the problem lies... I think because of the easy availability of food and its importance to us, with all our hunger signalling and food reward, the Anabolic/ catabolic balance gets hijacked by our own inherent laziness. Yes we are hardwired to take the easy route, the most energy conserving route. I believe what happens is that over time our bodies instead of tapping into our catabolic processes to arrest below basal BG, we (the fatties) get into the habit of just re-adding glucose to the blood by way of the mouth/stomach. This leads us to seek out foods that will re-raise our blood glucose (ie carbs and sugars). Conveniently those same food engineers realize this and have added a carb component to almost every factory produced food on the planet. All fast food joints have carbs in/with their meals, they mightn't be the largest macro present but they are there. combine this with the hyper palatable, hyper available foods mentioned above and you got a perfect storm of obesity and metabolic derangement.

    If you want to reduce weight you have to start using your catabolic cycles again, infact you need to be in a daily catabolic excess <<< this is absolutely the only way to lose weight. You can't lose an ounce if your not in a catabolic state (ie BG below basal). This is why the primal blue print is so successful, because it basically helps you to retrain to use Glucagon (your catabolic hormone) again. The major blow ups you see from people on primal come because they are already catabolic more than enough, and are making themselfs more catabolic by reducing carbs.
    A little primal gem - My Success Story
    Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

  6. #136
    Graycat's Avatar
    Graycat is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    1,937
    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post

    If you want to reduce weight you have to start using your catabolic cycles again, infact you need to be in a daily catabolic excess <<< this is absolutely the only way to lose weight. You can't lose an ounce if your not in a catabolic state (ie BG below basal). This is why the primal blue print is so successful, because it basically helps you to retrain to use Glucagon (your catabolic hormone) again. The major blow ups you see from people on primal come because they are already catabolic more than enough, and are making themselfs more catabolic by reducing carbs.
    Dilberry, I agree with the premise of the first half of your post. Then, the rest (lose weight by controlling sugar) sounds Taubesque to me.
    If keeping the BG level below basal level is the most important factor for being in catabolic state often (losing weight), then how do you explain the fact that millions lose weight quite successfully on high carbohydrate diets?
    What is then the role of the dietary fat, the one macro that does not affect the BG levels? How do you explain weight (body fat) gain in people on ketogenic diets then?
    Last edited by Graycat; 03-10-2014 at 09:51 AM.

  7. #137
    dilberryhoundog's Avatar
    dilberryhoundog is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    545
    Quote Originally Posted by Graycat View Post
    Dilberry, I agree with the premise of the first half of your post. Then, the rest (lose weight by controlling sugar) sounds Taubesque to me.
    If keeping the BG level below basal level is the most important factor for being in catabolic state often (losing weight), then how do you explain the fact that millions lose weight quite successfully on high carbohydrate diets.
    What is then the role of the dietary fat, the one macro that does not affect the BG levels? How do you explain weight (body fat) gain in people on ketogenic diet then?
    Eating carbs doesn't lock you in above basal BG all day, in a short time your back into catabolic processes. So you can lose weight eating carbs if you can have sufficient periods where you aren't eating carbs in the day and relying on your body's catabolic processes to produce energy the rest. Most obese constantly refresh their anabolic state.

    Dietary fat is free to move into storage cells or fuel cells from the blood after eating. But it is not free to move out of those cells unless your body releases catabolic hormones to break it down, it can only do this when BG is below basal. People on keto rarely increase their fat stores, if they did it would be because they ate too many fat calories for the body to use up in day, this hard to do tho, because if you are good at being catabolic your body will easily tend to a balanced caloric state. Remember people are obese because their metabolism get lazy and don't want to do the reconverting of energy, leading to a constant fed state. Calories still matter though.
    Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 03-10-2014 at 10:28 AM.
    A little primal gem - My Success Story
    Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

  8. #138
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,659
    Quote Originally Posted by Dann View Post
    Not understanding the question

    mind if ya re word it? por favor
    Sure, I think I can help ya. It was a rhetorical question followed by a statement of fact. So no need for you to answer, unless ya want.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 03-10-2014 at 02:47 PM.

  9. #139
    Scott F's Avatar
    Scott F is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    930
    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    The past 5 pages of this thread is why "paleo" is a laughing stock in legitimate scientific communities and will never reach mainstream success. Which is probably for the best judging by how inept many of its followers are.

    Scott, I like how you are the tome of knowledge of what our ancestors ate. You don't have a shred of evidence to back up anything you're saying other than blog posts from people that fall in line with your exact (incorrect) line of thinking). We have no idea what your health or physical conditions are, but you have lots of hypotheticals and incorrect assumptions. Let's take our advice from you.
    It's called me sourcing expert anthropological opinion that is a belief head by most (if not all) of those experts. http://m.livescience.com/23671-eatin...-us-human.html

    If you don't think I can source that opinion what gives you hypocritical excuse to do so, Chaco....pot calling the kettle black.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  10. #140
    sbhikes's Avatar
    sbhikes is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    9,334
    Have any of you seen the pictures and read of what happened when white flour and sugar were introduced into native populations around the world? This would have been before the introduction of margarine around the world.
    Nutrition and Physical Degeneration
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3

Page 14 of 21 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •