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Thread: Supplementing antioxidants can backfire? page

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    Rob from NJ's Avatar
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    Supplementing antioxidants can backfire?

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    Yesterday I recommitted to taking a daily multivitamin (for convenience Iíve opted for GNC's Ultra Mega Green which is similar to Markís Advanced Health Formula) and as coincidence would have it the podcast I listened to today was a Robb Wolf interview of Loren Cordain where he suggests taking antioxidant vitamins is not a very good idea.

    Cordain said that the data suggests too many antioxidants reduce Reactive Oxidative Species and the mitochondria and cells require them to get rid of dead cells along with the bacteria, viruses, pathogens and toxins in our cells. So basically we overload the system with antioxidants it seems to backfire on us.

    Are any daily multivitamin users (or non-users) familiar with the above concept?

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    eKatherine's Avatar
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    My understanding is that research has failed to confirm magical properties that it was assumed antioxidants have.

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    Rob from NJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    My understanding is that research has failed to confirm magical properties that it was assumed antioxidants have.
    Yeah, I’ve heard that before too but what Cordain was saying was that when you eat a clean Paleo/Primal diet AND take antioxidant supplements you are doing more harm than good as the body needs a certain amount of these ROS present.

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    Oxidation/inflammation and anti-oxidation/anti-inflammation both have vital roles. I believe the idea is to provide an environment in which they can self-regulate with neither one running rampant.

    Foods that happen to contain antioxidants perform well observationally but considering how little we know of the exact mechanism I wouldn't expect much from a pill.
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    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Chris Masterjohn did a presentation that included looking at oxidative stresses role in cellular communication.

    Start watching from the 20 minute mark:


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    There have been reports of individuals becoming overloaded on such potent antioxidants as green tea extract and actually causing liver damage. Our livers can only handle so much at one time, even of generally beneficial substances like green tea antioxidants.
    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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    Rob from NJ's Avatar
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    Thanks for the video, lots of science there so I may need to watch it one (or two) more times but I got that he's saying there is balance the cells require between oxidants and antioxidants. I guess the question then becomes at what point do we overdo it? For instance would eating clean, drinking copious amounts of tea daily, and taking a multivitamin be too much or would it also depend on toxins we are exposed to?

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    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob from NJ View Post
    Thanks for the video, lots of science there so I may need to watch it one (or two) more times but I got that he's saying there is balance the cells require between oxidants and antioxidants. I guess the question then becomes at what point do we overdo it? For instance would eating clean, drinking copious amounts of tea daily, and taking a multivitamin be too much or would it also depend on toxins we are exposed to?
    What I believe is that foods in their natural form for which we are well adapted to are recognized by our body and processed in an appropriate balance due to cell signaling that includes the oxidative/antioxidant consequences of eating that particular food. When we artificially inflate either of those.... or both (oxidation or antioxidants) we are trying to take this mechanism into our own hands. We don't have even a vague idea of how these processes work for certain, but we attempt to manipulate them none the less. Its like letting a toddler play with a gun.

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    I've given up trying to listen to each new fantastic research that comes my way.

    80% of health research is just rubbish. Either the methodology was messed up (research based on collected data seems about as accurate as ouija boards*), or the data / protocol was deliberately tampered with, due to either professional pride or to satisfy a sponsor with an ulterior motive.

    * Example fictional research: "Quinoa increases life expectancy by 5 years." Reality: Urban rich with healthy lifestyles tend to eat quinoa. The urban rich with healthy lifestyles, quinoa aside, enjoy a life expectancy 5 years above average. There's a world of difference between eating fresh real food including quinoa, and eating junk food (quinoa or no). The research is rubbish.

    Of this 80%, a good 10% is pure headbanging quackery and little more than the ravings of madmen.

    The remaining 20%, which seem remotely solid, tends to contradict itself on a daily basis, and thus I am forced to believe that they too, are inaccurate.

    It's absolutely hopeless. You can find research to support raw veganism, fruitarianism, living on nothing but wheat and water, eating a kilogram of vitamins and never eating liver to make sure you don't eat too much vitamins... Antioxidants stopping the decay of telomers, and antioxidants fucking up telomers. Antioxidants stopping cancer, and antioxidants causing cancer.

    It's madness, quite similar to speaking to occultists. This is a sad parody of science.
    Last edited by Sigmoid; 02-12-2014 at 07:50 AM.

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    The media would have us living on supplements and superfoods.

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