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Thread: ChocoTaco369, this is for you:

  1. #131
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    But could the result of that argument be that choco actually learned something from the discussion and added that new knowledge to his repertoire?
    It might be!

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    Not going to defend choco because he's a big boy and can defend himself. But could the result of that argument be that choco actually learned something from the discussion and added that new knowledge to his repertoire? As opposed to the other people on this site who double fist the "calories don't matter" koolaid and then bury their heads in the sand. People who learn and evolve should be applauded, not mocked
    Choco doesn't learn things, he sprouts whatever is gunna get him the most pats on the back. Even if what he's sprouting goes against what he said previously. He will never say sorry or admit he was wrong. He does grab other peoples mantras and then strut around as tho he invented the concept (my post a little back was a tip of the hat to this).

    If you interrupt his little back patting circle by calling him out on some bullshit he is saying, he gets very agitated and resorts to low blows and hissy fits. It is very hard to have a civil debate with the guy.


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    A little primal gem - My Success Story
    Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

  3. #133
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    Like I said, I'm not defending the guy. Just thinking out loud

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    Choco and others have stated many times that there are things that affect both sides of the CICO equation but at the end of the day calories still count. If (I am making this up for an example) diet coke f*cks up your metabolism to the point where you burn less calories this would have an effect on the CO part. If you have a jacked up thyroid this might have an effect on the CO part. If you underestimate what you eat this matters to the CI part etc.

    So yes CICO is not as simple as X in - y out = weightloss but that does not mean the whole concept is flawed.

    The guy who got me into primal lost 50 pounds eating primally. He then gained 30 pounds eating primally with more calories. Same foods different amounts. Yes, he weighed everything, kept a log etc. Yes, he did it on purpose.

    My wife has lost 90+ pounds. She eats carbs. She eats wheat. She drinks 6-8 diet cokes a day. She cut calories. It worked.

    Does that mean it works for everyone as written? No. But that does not make the premise false.
    I'm not going to go through 14 pages at this point, but this answer is good enough to the reality.

    To the OP: you either screwed up counting your calorie intake, you screwed up calculating your TDEE, or most likely of all - both. There is no way you can track your calorie output, either, so that's kind of a crazy statement.

    Different foods, exercises and metabolic conditions influence your "calories out." If you want to lose weight most effectively, you should be trying to maximize the hormones that generate the best state for body composition. This is healthy thyroid function, high testosterone, low estrogen and youthful labs for pregnenolone and DHEA, since they are the precursors for all your hormones.

    The best way to do those things: high protein intake, adequate fats AND carbohydrates from quality sources (saturated animal/coconut/dairy fats preferred, fruits and potatoes preferred for carbs) and low levels of toxic or irritating foods (you know what they are). Reduce "added calories" from added fats/oils, added refined sugars, drinking calories, alcohol, etc. Yada, yada.

    Oh yea, and lift heavy weights and sprint 1-2 times a week. Simple.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 12-13-2013 at 10:52 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Choco doesn't learn things, he sprouts whatever is gunna get him the most pats on the back. Even if what he's sprouting goes against what he said previously. He will never say sorry or admit he was wrong. He does grab other peoples mantras and then strut around as tho he invented the concept (my post a little back was a tip of the hat to this).

    If you interrupt his little back patting circle by calling him out on some bullshit he is saying, he gets very agitated and resorts to low blows and hissy fits. It is very hard to have a civil debate with the guy.


    Sent from my iPhone
    You got me. I'm trying to build up as many religious followers as possible so the new book I'm writing ends up on the NY Times Best Seller's list. Isn't that why you're here right now?

    Sometimes you worry me that you think about me this much.

    This goes for a lot of you. How the hell is there a 14 page thread about me that I haven't even seen or responded to yet? Don't any of you have jobs? Christ.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    Thank you. I didn't want to be the only one who remembered his flip flop. The most important thing I've learned from him is that on the internet, bloviation tops information.
    You should learn to flip-flop on things sometimes. I'm proud that I can admit I'm wrong in the face of better information and rigorous self-experimentation. Most of you guys are too proud and would rather claw at a concrete wall for years until your fingers bleed than admit you're wrong, turn around and use the door.

    Developed opinions through self-experimentation vs religious belief. Many on this forum are in the latter.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  7. #137
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    Don't any of you have jobs? Christ.
    My job is boring; it is more fun to bloviate and try and get men to take shirts off.

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

  8. #138
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    I'm really more of a trenchcoat flasher. I think ball shots are frowned upon here.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  9. #139
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    I'm really more of a trenchcoat flasher. I think ball shots are frowned upon here.
    I'm hopped up on enough carbs today that it would entertain me. I know it would entertain a few others as well.

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

  10. #140
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    In a way, Choco reminds me of myself when I was in my early 20s. I thought I had figured the bodybuilding out but as new info came in I realized how little I had actually known. In my 30s-40s I looked at the professional bodybuilders and thought to myself they would suck if they had to survive in a paleolithic world so I applied what I imagined would be a build for an ideal hunter/gatherer. Seems to me that's what men and women find the most attractive builds. Problems was, I was into the AMA's diet guidelines and found trying to keep the bodyfat down was tough. With paleo/primal it's now easy keeping the excess fat off.

    Today, I use an evolutionary template for what I think is optimal body build, exercise, and diet by asking some basic questions around a healthy hunter/gatherer's needs.

    Evolutionary biology is all about survival. The mind might know it's living in modern times but the body doesn't. It still thinks it's paleo.

    Weightlifting, from my POV, sends a signal to the body that it's survival was just compromised. My workout needs to be intense and I should feel fatigued when the routine is done. If my body thinks there's enough quality calories in its environment it can respond by adding new muscle once it's recovered from the effort. Begs the question, though: What, exactly, are those quality macros/micros my the body needs capable of sending the desired signal to put on extra muscle and to be optimally healthy? For fitness minded people that's what all these nutritional debates are all about.

    CICO only describes what's happening. If you eat more calories than you need then you will put on weight (it might go to muscle, it might go to fat, or to both). What CICO doesn't do, IMO, is establish cause and effect. It doesn't explain why someone is eating more calories than they need or why they might be moving less.

    While carrying some fat is a positive survival strategy, obesity is not. If you are obese you ain't going be the one outrunning the bears. So I'd expect some kind of (hormonal) feedback mechanism that regulates hunger and satiety. Because I believe that, and since there's an "obesity epidemic" I wonder what might be interfering with fat/energy regulation that causes some people to become obese? For me, the ancestral health is all about asking and trying to find the answers to those question. I think it's excess starch and fructose. When I was a kid I couldn't eat starches like white rice or pancakes (unless they were doctored up). I can eat them now but I can think of foods I'd rather eat. Too much sugar in the form of taffy, cotton candy, candied yams, or pecan pie made me sick and lethargic. I now think it's interesting that those are the very things excluded from a primal diet.

    I know from personal experience that if I eat a high starchy meal one night (like a lot of bread and pizza), I will wake up the next morning hungry as hell. Why is that, when I normally can skip breakfast and often do? Taubes would argue it's the high insulin kick caused by the excess carbs. Maybe. I don't really need to know the biochemistry to do self observations. CICO doesn't explain why that happens. It only describes that I'll likely ate a lot more than usual the next morning.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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