[QUOTE=j3nn;1225435]Dude, I feel bad when I accidentally kill a bug whether it was part of my food or not. I do feel bad for any loss of life down the line, even more so if I purposely target it. But like I said about 8709383 times in this thread, my selfishness by far outweighs my compassion for animals, obviously. I feel bad, but obviously not bad enough to put the life of others before my own.[/QUOTE]
So, when you choose to intervene and save the life of an insect that has gotten itself stuck, say a ladybug in a puddle, do you also feel bad?
The ladybug had clearly come to it's own end, and by saving it's life you will cause hundreds more deaths because the ladybug will go on to eat many, many aphids. Gobble them up alive.
Any guilt there?
If not then there shouldn't be with any animal you consume for food.
I do the same thing. I save small creatures, but I have no illusions or qualms about the part they play in the grand circle.
Things eat and/or are eaten, and that is OK.
[QUOTE=cori93437;1225469]So, when you choose to intervene and save the life of an insect that has gotten itself stuck, say a ladybug in a puddle, do you also feel bad?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The ladybug had clearly come to it's own end, and by saving it's life you will cause hundreds more deaths because the ladybug will go on to eat many, many aphids. Gobble them up alive.
Any guilt there? [/QUOTE]
Nope. I have no control over what others do, only what I do and what affects me. Some things tug at my heart strings, others don't. I never said there's anything logical about empathizing with a bug. My compassion is obviously selective and limited, but at least it exists to some degree and that gives the motivation to make improvements for all life.
Look at what Temple Grandin did to help create the improvements of slaughterhouses. Why is it wrong to care enough to want to see and put effort into advancements? It's not.
I call what you describe above selectionist belief.
You really do have to be able to acknowledge that by saving the ladybug you are in part the cause of the further deaths that it goes on to commit.
You know that it will do it. But because the ladybug is cute, you choose to save it.
An aphid is not cute... you choose to not acknowledge your part in that bit of the puzzle.
Out of sight out of mind.
I do not understand this.
I save things all the time.
Snakes, lizards, bugs.
But I acknowledge that I just played a part in that snake going out into my yard and eating/killing the other residents there. A toad, a lizard, etc.
If I had allowed nature to take the natural course it was already taking the other thing would have a better chance.
I am impacting the living of another being by choosing to help this one.
Affecting the life of this animal is causing the deaths of many others.
To not accept that is naive above all things.
To not accept that is naive above all things.[/QUOTE]
Naive if you truly don't know better. Reprehensible if you choose not to.
[url=http://www.albc-usa.org/]American Livestock Breeds Conservancy[/url] - has a ton of info on livestock breeds that are going extinct because they aren't mainstream eating breeds anymore.
Sure, we need to get rid of feed lots and not prod sick cows to get back on their feet while the USDA inspector watches. But it's the circle of life - as worn out as that phrase may be. I'll never feel guilty about being at the top of my particular food chain (no lions here in the city).
[QUOTE=Leida;1225418]I would argue with the definition of barbarian and barbarism as a Roman fallacy.[/QUOTE]
Traditional Chinese also had this concept when comparing themselves with other early cultures.
And good and evil are religious concepts.
[QUOTE=cori93437;1225522]To not accept that is naive above all things.[/QUOTE]
But at the same time no other species has the reasoning capabilities that humans do, so what we choose to do with our advanced brain power is not comparable to a creature that doesn't have the same capacity. Of course insects are predators (and prey) and so on down and up the food chain because that is all they know, but humans are unique and can decide many things that others cannot. I do not think it's wrong for a lion to attack a zebra; it's all the know and it's their only option for survival. Humans have a few more choices and will have even more as time goes on.
[QUOTE=eKatherine;1225200]This has been a fascinating discussion to read upon rising, especially in the way that one who is truly passionate on a topic (who knew people were passionate in that way about Nikola Tesla?) can get sucked down into the rabbit hole, revealing more about their own motivations than may have been intended. Thanks for making it "real", J3nn.[/QUOTE]
Wow. I slept in and this thread has gone to some really weird places.
OK, J3nn, you've already admitted the hypocrisy of feeling bad about animals dying yet eating them anyway so I won't beat you over the head with that.
I really think there is an element of self righteousness involved however in saying, "Well I am a morally superior being because I at least feel bad about it. Look at me. I'm soooo evolved."
You are a predator. The sooner you accept that and live in harmony with it, the happier you will be. Fighting against your own true nature internally with every forkful of steak must be a very sad way to live.
[QUOTE=j3nn;1225464]Damn oranges. I knew they were up to no good!![/QUOTE]
Fruits are always made to fool unknowing birds, animals or humans to spread the seed of some clever smartass plant or fruit tree! Anyway, eating other living beings is immoral, and everybody should limit their diet to water and sunshine only!!!
Oatmeal is really only good with some form of flesh. My favorites are oatmeal with bacon and hard-boiled eggs or oatmeal with eggs and sardines. Haven't had oatmeal in a long time though. Still miss it. Might get some gluten-free oatmeal at some point...