So right now we have a whole class of barely literate kids who have dipshit parents. Make school not compulsory and we get a whole class of totally illiterate kids with dipshit parents. The kids get punished more than the dipshit parents, and I'm investing in companies who run prisons because that's going to be the only place for most of those kids once they're adults.
A few months ago I read this and it made sense to me, just like Primal.
[url=http://mises.org/document/2689/Education-Free-and-Compulsory]Murray N. Rothbard :: Education: Free and Compulsory[/url]
[QUOTE=canio6;1206918]True, but in Finland you have to be in the top 90% of all college students to be accepted into the education master's program. Here in the US education majors usually are in the lowest scoring/performing (no, I am not saying all teachers are stupid. My dad is brilliant as I am sure every teacher here is too). That said, I think the major issues are with the system not the teachers themselves. Out of curiosity, how many teachers would work 50 weeks a year if it meant a pay raise? (obviously it would as they are currently only paid for 180-200 days).[/QUOTE]
Prior to my current work i spent 17 years as a teacher educator. I can see that in Finland, having those evaluated as the top 10% of students qualify for university education in that profession is clearly working for them. This is not disconnected from a quality education system that graduates them, and, like childhood schools, is free for all. I guess it is the top 10% requirement that makes it garner respect, as well as a solid preparation that focuses on children being children, not hooked into classrooms and technology for long periods of the day, and where schooling through university is a right everyone has. They use their high taxes to do this, provide dental and medical care for a minimum cost, and a number of other social goods.
Here in Canada and in the university at which I worked, I found that students who do well in HS are not necessarily better at what they do than someone in the middle pack, so to speak. The reason is that so much of teaching is about people and developing relationships, and caring, and social work, and so on. So, because a person's achievements are not the top does not mean that they are not capable, but perhaps other important aspects of learning are more important, perhaps with issues to overcome. I have found that students with complex stories and critical minds, and a love of children and young people can be excellent teachers, regardless of HS marks.
[QUOTE=Aili;1208165]I have found that students with complex stories and critical minds, and a love of children and young people can be excellent teachers, regardless of HS marks.[/QUOTE]
And I would agree. However, it was my experience that in many places in the US creative teaching is not rewarded. It is about teaching to the state mandated tests, hitting certain metrics, and regurgitating approved lesson plans, which are often dictated by politicians or those far removed from an actual classroom. Again, I do not think teachers themselves are necessarily the issue (though the inability to fire incompetent teachers once they hit tenure does not help) but the system in many areas is not conducive to a real education.
As (I think it was) Twain said, "I never let schooling interfere with my education." Too often these days we have lots of schooling and far too little education/learning.
[QUOTE=JIMG;1208129]A few months ago I read this and it made sense to me, just like Primal.
[url=http://mises.org/document/2689/Education-Free-and-Compulsory]Murray N. Rothbard :: Education: Free and Compulsory[/url][/QUOTE]
Rothbard is great.... and his ideas are so different from CW.... Ever read his Man, Economy and Sate?
I'd say the movement towards standardized testing, when there is NOTHING standardized about how, when, what, where and why people learn, is a huge part of the problems in education. Too much is expected of teachers and they are not nurtured and supported in ways that are needed, and yet teachers, regardless of their dreams end up teaching to the test b/c that is how worthiness as a teacher seems to be measured. LNCB in the US is followed by increased standardized tests in Canada. We had that debate and fight 3 decades ago and again it rears its ugly head! I think that next to parenting, the most important job on this planet is the formal teaching of children.
Funny but I was just posting similar sentiments just as you were :)
[QUOTE=ssn679doc;1208177]Rothbard is great.... and his ideas are so different from CW.... Ever read his Man, Economy and Sate?[/QUOTE]
I agree Rothbard was a great man.
I know of it but that one is still on my to read list. I have read so many books from the Mises site, Human Action I started but didn't get to far really want to revisit it and try again.
From "Say ten things" straight to "Wah waa wah waa waa wah"
All this chat reminds me of the worst "sex" scene in a movie ever IMO.
It involves no actual sex, but it does involve teachers.
[QUOTE=JIMG;1208221]I agree Rothbard was a great man.
I know of it but that one is still on my to read list. I have read so many books from the Mises site, Human Action I started but didn't get to far really want to revisit it and try again.[/QUOTE]
Human Action is a long slog.... but then again, so is Rothbards book.